PC MINS 20120124 Approved
February 2&,,2012
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 24, 2012
CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Tomblin at 7:03 p.m. at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard,
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Leon led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.
ATTENDANCE
Present: Commissioners Emenhiser, Gerstner, Leon, Vice Chairman Tetreault, and
Chairman Tomblin.
Absent: Commissioner Lewis was excused.
Also present were Community Development Director Rojas, Deputy Director Mihranian,
and Associate Planner Mikhail
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The agenda was unanimously approved as presented.
COMMUNICATIONS
Director Rojas reported that at their January 17th meeting the City Council initiated a
code amendment to regulate the frequency of garage sales held on residential
properties.
Director Rojas also reported that the Commissioners can turn in their 700 Forms to the
Director for delivery to the City Clerk. He added that the City Council will conduct
interviews for Planning Commission candidates at their upcoming January 31't meeting.
He noted that registration for the upcoming March Planning Commission conference is
open and if any Commissioners are interested in registering, to contact the Director.
Director Rojas distributed 9 letters for agenda item No, 1 and 4 letters for agenda item
No. 4.
Commissioner Leon reported that he received an email from a resident related to
agenda item No. 3, which he distributed as late correspondence.
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE (regarding non-a-genda items):
None
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Ancillary residential zone text amendment (ZON2011-00345)
Associate Planner Mikhail presented the staff report, explaining this was a code
amendment request originally initiated by the City Council in June 2011. She stated
that staff proposes that ancillary residential uses be permitted within a commercially
zoned property with the approval of a Conditional Use Permit and explained the
development standards created for such use as detailed in the staff report.
Commissioner Gerstner referred to language that would allow the outside of the
commercial building to be changed with the addition of residential use. He asked staff if
he was interpreting this language correctly.
Associate Planner Mikhail explained that the requirement is that the architecture of the
commercial building be maintained, but that a residential addition would be permitted if
a Conditional Use Permit were approved.
Commissioner Gerstner questioned why any change to the architecture of the
commercial building would be allowed and why it wouldn't be required that the
architecture be maintained as approved in the original Conditional Use Permit.
Director Rojas noted that is an issue that may want to be clarified.
Commissioner Gerstner discussed the parking requirements, noting that it is not typical
for the City to change the parking requirements when an ancillary use is added to the
site.
Associate Planner Mikhail noted that the parking requirements would also depend on
the commercial site, as many of the commercial developments have a common shared
parking analysis that was done. She also noted that staff was intending there to be
designated parking for the residential units on the property.
Commissioner Gerstner referred to proposed language that the resident shall be
employed at the commercial property. He asked what provisions are included if the
person living in the residential portion of the property were to lose their job.
Associate Planner Mikhail explained that the intent is to have people employed within
the commercial development living at the site. She noted a provision was added that if
a resident of the property loses their job that they vacate the property when the
residential lease expires.
Planning Commission Minutes
January 24,2012
Page 2
Commissioner Gerstner felt that mixed use properties have a great benefit, however he
felt that typically the City would determine where specifically the mixed use site would
work and be beneficial. However, in this case the City is proposing to take all
commercial properties and allowing them to be mixed use properties with approval of a
Conditional Use Permit. He noted that some will make more sense from a planning
point of view than others.
Director Rojas agreed, explaining that staff wrote this language in a way where the use
will clearly be ancillary and will not change the commercial use. Therefore, the intent
was not to create a traditional "mixed use" zone but simply a process for any property
owner who is interested in having some residential tenants can take advantage of the
,allowance if they want. He also noted that the property will remain zoned for
commercial, as the language does not propose to change the zoning of the property.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that he has never seen in any other City residential use
as an ancillary use on commercially zoned property.
Vice Chairman Tetreault asked staff for clarification on the City Council direction. He
asked if the City Council has already decided that this is the direction they want to go,
and have given the Planning Commission direction to recommend a set of standards by
which this can be implemented. Or, did the City Council want the Planning Commission
to explore the issue and provide feedback to the Council on the issue.
Associate Planner Mikhail answered that the City Council was asking the Planning
Commission for feedback on this issue.
Vice Chairman Tetreault noted that staff had determined a revision to the Conditional
Use Permit, rather than a zone change, was a more appropriate route in regards to this
type of project, since this will be an ancillary use. He asked staff if there has been a
determination made as to what that threshold is when an ancillary use will become
inconsistent with the General Plan,
Director Rojas explained that the City Attorney determined that in this case, since the
primary use of the center will remain commercial and the zoning will not change, that
there would be no issue with inconsistency with the General Plan,
Vice Chairman Tetreault noted that the staff report discussed the health, safety, and
welfare of the community in regards to this proposal. He asked if staff had considered
the health, safety, and welfare of the possible residents who might be living in those
spaces. He used the example of tenants who might have children, noting the potential
safety issues with living in a busy commercial center. He asked if the City can regulate
who can actually live in these units, as he felt there were safety issues.
Director Rojas explained that before any units can be rented out the Building Official will
confirm that they meet all life safety requirements, of the Building Code so that it can be
assured the units will be safe, habitable dwelling units. He stated he would have to
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January 24,2012
Page 3
check with the City Attorney on whether or not the City can prohibit children from living
in these units.
Vice Chairman Tetreault discussed the situation where a tenant moves into one of the
units and feels that the noise from one of the businesses is a nuisance, even though the
business is typical for a center such as Golden Cove and was there before the tenant
moved in. He questioned if the tenant would have a right to bring an action for
nuisance, even though the resident is new to the property. He felt that this type of
mixed use opens up a lot of issues and that maybe that is why it's not a typical use in a
shopping center,
Chairman Tomblin questioned if the deed restrictions on these units could be limited to
only employees of the Golden Cove Center. He felt that in doing so there could be a
discrimination issue.
Associate Planner Mikhail explained that the City Attorney reviewed the proposal and
felt that the units could be offered to employees only.
Chairman Tomblin noted that as part of their Conditional Use Permit, the businesses in
the Golden Cove Center have specific hours they can be open and operating. He didn't
think the City could ask any potential residents at Golden Cove to abide by these hours
of operation, and asked staff how that would be handled,
Director Rojas reminded the Commission that if an application is submitted for an
ancillary residential use, the property owner is opening up the entire Conditional Use
Permit for review whereby existing conditions can be modified and new conditions
imposed. He explained the Commission can put restrictions on what is allowed with any
proposed residential use of the property.
Commissioner Gerstner understood, but didn't think the City could amend the
Conditional Use Permit to say that one could not operate a residence between the
hours of 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. He felt that some reasonable residential use would be
appropriate and acceptable if the City allows the use. He also felt that enforcement
would be next to impossible, and in the end it would mean that the shopping center
almost has no hours of operation.
Director Rojas stated that in order to approve a Conditional Use Permit to allow an
ancillary residential use there are specific findings the Commission must make, which
include analyzing adverse impacts on adjacent neighbors. If the Commissioners cannot
make these findings they cannot approve the request.
Chairman Tomblin opened the public hearing.
John Wessel stated he was concerned with this proposal in terms of a conflict with the
General Plan and that converting this site to allow ancillary uses represents a slippery
slope in implementation of the General Plan as the governing document. He urged the
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January 24,2012
Page 4
Planning Commission to recommend that this proposal is inconsistent with the General
Plan and a revision to the General Plan would be required in order to allow this use.
Chairman Tomblin closed the public hearing.
Vice Chairman Tetreault felt this is a rather significant proposal, and he had his doubts
as to whether or not this would be good for the City. He felt that this proposal would
allow an ancillary use which would have the affect, in various places around the City, of
removing the cities stock of retail and commercial establishments. As the economy
improves these spaces might turn out to be spaces that could be used for their intended
primary use, and this would be a potential loss of revenue to the City. He also
commented that adding residents to a shopping center could change the whole
complexion of the area by changing the look and feel of the area and changing the use
to 24/7. He stated that the only location looked at in detail is Golden Cove, but noted
there are other shopping centers in the City this could affect. He felt that before making
a recommendation to the City Council that all shopping centers should be looked at and
how all the properties will be affected by this proposal. He didn't think he had nearly
enough information to make any recommendation to the City Council.
While Commissioner Emenhiser sympathized with the property owner, he questioned if
the Development Code should be changed to may not be the answer to the problem.
He agreed with the speaker that this might be a slippery slope and had a lot of
questions about how this borders the line between commercial and residential zoning,
Commissioner Gerstner noted that he is a big supporter of mixed use and that mixed
use may have some very good possibilities in the City. He stated he has never seen a
City with residential in a shopping center where it is called an ancillary use rather than a
mixed use. He did not think that residential is an ancillary use to commercial, even if
the people using the residential happen to be employed by the shopping center. He
added that at this point he was inclined to recommend against the use, but would
continue to listen to the idea.
Commissioner Leon stated he was also a supporter of mixed use, but not as an
ancillary use and felt this type of ancillary use will only create low quality housing. He
also felt there could be a lot of unintended consequences that come out of this type of
situation. He would therefore be generally opposed to having residential as an ancillary
use in a commercial zone.
Chairman Tomblin also noted he is a supporter of mixed use, however he was not in
favor of this proposal. He explained that the design and living conditions of the
apartment at the Golden Cove Center will dictate the pleasure of how that resident is
going to feel. He noted that the plans for the proposed apartment show that it will be a
unit that will result in grief for the resident and the people around it.
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January 24,2012
Page 5
Commissioner Leon commented that it appeared most Commissioners are in favor of a
high quality mixed use in the City, and suggested that the Development Code be
amended to allow for a mixed use in the City,
Vice Chairman Tetreault noted that the original request for this use came from the
owner at Golden Cove and the City chose to look at this as a citywide proposal. He felt
that the Commissioners were a bit uneasy with this proposal. He stated that he was
only aware of one person ever asking to take their unused or unusable commercial
space and turn it into residential. He asked why the City is basically inviting everyone to
now make this request. He questioned why the City would want to do that rather than
looking at these requests on a case by case basis. He stated he was having a problem
looking at only this one shopping center when considering a policy change that would
affect all of the shopping centers, as well as the surrounding neighbors, in the City.
Director Rojas noted that Alternative No. I in the staff• report is to limit this code
amendment only to the CN district.
Commissioner Gerstner moved to send this back to the City Council with the
recommendation that, having reviewed this proposal, the Planning Commission
does not believe that residential as an ancillary use in commercial districts is an
appropriate change to make. However, the Commission does feel there is a place
for mixed use in the community and would be interested in investigating mixed
use in the commercial districts of the City, seconded by Commissioner
Emenhiser.
Director Rojas stated that several years ago the City looked at mixed use and found that
developers and others they spoke to wanted taller buildings. He explained that in every
commercial zone in the City staff identified that a taller building would significantly
impair views from adjacent residents.
Commissioner Gerstner amended his motion to state that the Planning
Commission recommends to the City Council that ancillary residential use in a
commercial space is not an appropriate use and the Commission recommends
that it not be pursued. However, the Planning Commission does feel mixed use
may have a place in the community and, if directed by the City Council, would like
to pursue, seconded by Commissioner Emenhiser. Approved, (5-0).
Director Rojas stated that staff will prepare a Resolution memorializing the decision and
bring it to the Commission for approval on the Consent Calendar at the next meeting.
2. Miscellaneous clean-up zone text amendment revision
Associate Planner Mikhail presented the staff report, explaining that at a previous
meeting staff presented a number of code clean-up items before the Planning
Commission. She noted that the wrong code section was inadvertently removed, and in
the staff report the Commission can see what was intended and what was actually
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January 24,2012
Page 6
done. She stated that staff was recommending the Commission approve, via minute
order, the erroneous correction to the amendment.
Commissioner Leon moved to correct the amendment as recommended by staff,
seconded by Commissioner Emenhiser. The motion was approved via minute
order.
Commissioner Gerstner discussed the section regarding roof decks, noting that roof
decks are rather unique and there are a lot of special conditions that are applied to roof
decks. He also felt that roof decks in Rancho Palos Verdes are more like a large
balcony on a top floor rather than a true roof deck. In this proposed language he felt
that other lesser balconies are being included in this higher range of privacy concern
and it was a bit too restrictive. He felt that including the language regarding balconies
will be codifying some of things he felt were negatives in the Planning Commission not
accepting that residents live in close proximity to one another and that there is an
expectation of privacy from a neighbor's balcony that shouldn't be as great as what it is
becoming.
The motion to correct the erroneous amendment as recommended by staff was
approved, (4-1) with Commissioner Gerstner dissenting.
NEW BUSINESS
3. Discussion of exterior lighting conditions
Commissioner Leon distributed the text of an email he received from Cassie Jones
discussing the process she went through in regards to the lighting at the new animal
hospital, noting that if there are issues with the lighting they are not discovered early
enough in the process.
Associate Planner Mikhail presented the staff report, giving a brief overview of situations
where exterior lighting conditions may apply and the process staff follows in regards to
exterior lighting.
Commissioner Gerstner felt the City has to have a set of rules to give property owners
in regards to lighting that will allow them to purchase and install the correct lighting on
their property. He suggested the City be more specific with what we will' allow and
narrow the field of what is acceptable, such that we feel confident that what we do allow
works. He also suggested that lighting requirements not be described so much in a
performance terminology, such as where the lights can and cannot shine, but rather
more prescriptively. As an example, your lighting must do certain things and here are
four light fixture types the City has found to be successful and acceptable. He also felt
the City should not discuss lighting in terms of wattage, as that is a description of the
amount of electricity and the City is concerned about the amount of light. He stated he
would very much like to see what other cities do in terms of lighting restrictions and
conditions, and also stated he would talk to some of the consultants he uses to see if
Planning Commission Minutes
January 24,2012
Page 7
they would donate some of their time to discuss with staff their findings in terms of
lighting. Lastly, he felt the most effective lighting is from light that bounces off of
something else, explaining that when you look at diminished light you really don't want
to look through the glass and see the light from the light bulb, but rather you want to see
the light after it has bounced off of the pavement, a tree, or a building as this will
moderate the light and take the glare out of the light,
Commissioner Leon asked staff if they review the selection of the specific lighting
fixtures,
Director Rojas explained that staff reviews the lighting plan, looking at the fixtures to
make sure they will achieve whatever conditions have been put on the lighting plan.
Once the lighting has been installed staff will then review the lighting to verify that all
conditions of approval in terms of the lighting have been met.
Commissioner Leon felt that the problem applicants have with this process is that they
submit something to the City, and if approved it should then be approved, and there
shouldn't be any recourse by the City to come back and ask for modifications. He felt
the City should have one chance and not have an infinite number of chances to ask for
modifications to the lighting.
Chairman Tomblin briefly reviewed past projects where lighting has been an issue. He
also discussed the upcoming lighting at the St. John Fisher project.
Commissioner Gerstner noted that exterior lighting design at facilities in every City is an
issue, as it is one of the most difficult things to get right. He felt that there are so many
criteria to consider when looking at lighting that it makes it extremely difficult to make
everyone happy. He pointed out that Terranea is a particularly good example of an
exterior lighting solution on a rather large scale, with more than one type of light fixture,
and more than one type of exterior use. He stated he was very adamant about wanting
to work with staff to help find ways to address the lighting issues.
Chairman Tomblin appreciated and understood the information and process presented
in the staff report. He felt that what the next step is to look at how to take the current
process to a different, higher level in terms of the review process. He suggested
forming a subcommittee to look into lighting alternatives.
Commissioner Gerstner volunteered to work on the subcommittee, as did
Commissioner Leon and Chairman Tomblin,
Commissioner Gerstner moved to direct staff to look at other cities in regards to
how they address the issue of lighting, and bring that information as well as the
exterior lighting code back to the Commission at a future public hearing for
review. Further, this information should be reviewed with a subcommittee made
up of Commissioners Gerstner, Leon, and Chairman Tomblin, seconded by
Commissioner Leon, Approved without objection.
Planning Commission Minutes
January 24,2012
Page 8
4. Implementation of the Conceptual Trails Plan
Deputy Director Mihranian presented the staff report, explaining that from time to time
the Commission considers projects where trails are an issue or comments are raised by
the public regarding trails. Therefore, staff wanted to brief the Commission on how staff
reviews the Conceptual Trails Plan and works with applicants when projects are being
proposed. As discussed in the staff report, he gave a brief history of how the
Conceptual Trails Plan came about how staff uses this document when working with
developers and land owners who are proposing projects in the City,
Commissioner Leon asked if there was something the City could do in terms of
incentives, such as allowing more lot coverage, to encourage property owners to
dedicate trail easements on their property.
Director Rojas answered that the Planning Commission can suggest the City offer
incentives to property owners, similar to those offered in the equestrian areas,
Commissioner Gerstner felt this was an important issue, stating he was not as
concerned about the development of a trail easement from nothing to the ultimate trail
as he was about getting an easement to get the opportunity in place for a potential trail
in the future.
Director Rojas explained the Conceptual Trails, and gave the Commission a brief
update on potential trails in the City and how staff is working towards implementing
these trails.
The Commission unanimously received and filed this report,
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
5. Minutes of December 13, 2011
Vice Chairman Tetreault moved to approve the minutes as presented, seconded by
Commissioner Gerstner, Approved, (5-0)
6. Minutes of January 10, 2012
Commissioner Gerstner moved to approve the minutes as presented, seconded by
Commissioner Emenhiser. Approved, (5-0).
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
7. Pre-Agenda for the meeting on February 14, 201
The Commission reviewed and approved the pre-agenda,
Ranning Commission Minutes
January 24,2012
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ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 9-17 p.m.
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January 24,2012
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