PC MINS 20100810 Appr ved
September 28,
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 10, 2010
CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Gerstner at 7:00 p.m. at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Knight led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.
ATTENDANCE
Present: Commissioners Emenhiser, Knight, Leon, Lewis, and Chairman Gerstner.
Absent: Commissioner Tetreault and Vice Chairman Tomblin were excused.
Also present were Community Development Director Rojas, Assistant Planner Kim, and
Assistant Planner Harwell.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The agenda was unanimously approved as presented.
COMMUNICATIONS
Director Rojas reported that a review and update of the Planning Commission rules and
procedures and the foliage analysis discussion are tentatively scheduled to be
presented to the Planning Commission for consideration at the September 28th meeting.
Director Rojas distributed two items of correspondence for agenda item No. 2 and three
items of correspondence for agenda item No. 4.
Commissioner Leon reported that he had met with neighbors with regards to agenda
item No. 2.
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE (regarding non-agenda items):
None
CONSENT CALENDAR
1. Resolution opposing the Marymount College initiative
Chairman Gerstner asked that this item be removed from the Consent Calendar for
discussion, and the Commission agreed.
Chairman Gerstner explained that he made some adjustments to the language,
however noted that these adjustments did not change the content of the Resolution.
Commissioner Lewis read the revised resolution aloud.
Commissioner Lewis moved to approve the revised language as suggested by
Chairman Gerstner with the additional revision that the word "unanimous" be
stricken from the title, seconded by Commissioner Knight. There being no
objection, PC Resolution 2010-24 was adopted, (5-0).
PUBLIC HEARINGS
2. Grading Permit, Height Variation, Variance & Minor Exception Permit (Case
No. ZON2009-00400): 5903 Clint Place
Assistant Planner Kim presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the project and
the need for the various permits. She explained that staff is recommending denial of the
project, as staff felt that there is an adequate building pad on the lot to accommodate
residential development without the need for substantial grading or the need to deviate
from the code standards and guidelines. She noted that the applicant is proposing to
maximize the lot and create a larger building pad for development. She explained that
the proposed structure size, including garage, is 7,600 square feet while the average
structure size in the neighborhood is approximately 2,800 square feet. Staff felt that the
existing pad size is adequate to construct a residence that is compatible with the
neighborhood average in size. She further explained that the applicant feels the project,
as proposed, mimics the abutting property at 5888 Mossbank. She reviewed the
differences in the two projects, as discussed in the staff report, noting that staff feels the
Mossbank property and the subject property are clearly different and disagrees with the
applicant's justification to mimic the layout of the Mossbank property. She further
discussed what staff felt would be adverse impacts to the immediate neighborhood
properties related to bulk and mass as well as privacy and view issues. In conclusion,
she noted that staff was not able to make the necessary findings necessary for the
proposed project and recommends the Planning Commission deny the application
without prejudice.
Chairman Gerstner opened the public hearing.
Robert Tavasci (architect) displayed some visual aids he created to show the rendering
of the proposed project. He explained that originally he tried to have the driveway and
garage located as shown on the engineered tract map, however the three-car garage
and the turning radius space took up half of the buildable pad. By changing the
location of the garage to the other side of the property would allow more of a buildable
Planning Commission Minutes
August 10,2010
Page 2
area for the residence. In regards to grading, he felt that any two-story structure on this
lot will entail a large quantity of grading as the structure would have to be lowered so it
would not block the view from 5901 Clint Place. He asked that the Commission
approve the project as designed, noting that he felt the project meets all of the code
requirements as far as size and style of the house.
Commissioner Lewis asked if it would be feasible to make any portion of the proposed
residence subterranean.
Mr. Tavasci answered that is what he has done by lowering the elevation.
Commissioner Lewis explained that in order for the Commission to approve the
Variance they must find there is an exceptional or extraordinary circumstance that
applies to this property that does not apply to other properties in the City. He asked Mr.
Tavasci to explain the exceptional or extraordinary circumstance.
Mr. Tavasci explained the uniqueness is the narrowness of the building pad which
makes it very difficult to build on without expanding.
Commissioner Lewis noted this proposed residence is 7,000 square feet in size. He
asked if the owners wanted a 3,000 square foot home if it would be feasible to do so
without touching the extreme slope.
Mr. Tavasci answered there would still be excessive grading if it were to be a two-story
structure. The grading is necessary to bring the house down to a level so that it would
not block the view from 5902 Clint Place.
Victor Lockett (architect) explained how they emulated the neighboring house on
Mossbank. He did not think this proposed house would have any direct impact from the
street. He felt that even a 3,000 square foot home would have to be two-story because
of the narrowness of the building pad and the amount of room the driveway and garage
take up. He also noted that the height of the retaining wall would not change even if the
house is single story.
Chairman Gerstner noted that a large portion of this house is built over an extreme
slope, which the City considers to be not buildable property with the exception that the
Commission can find an exceptional or extraordinary circumstance. Also, there are a
fair number of walls that are taller than what the City will typically allow, and asked Mr.
Lockett to address those two issues.
Mr. Lockett explained that the first extraordinary circumstance is the access to the lot
and also noted that the pad for the garage does not allow for any type of turning radius.
In regards to the retaining walls, again he noted that the wall would be the same height,
no matter if the house is a single story or a two-story home. He also noted that once
the grading is done there will no longer be an extreme slope, so there really shouldn't
be an issue.
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August 10,2010
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Robin Vandeveer (owner) noted that the conversation seems to be centered around the
size of the house and the orientation of the garage. He explained that he has looked at
the situation very seriously, and explained that if it is built as conceptualized by the civil
engineers, it would only leave a 1,500 square foot house. He felt that this property is
unique and has a tremendous view, and any house on this property should maximize
that view. He felt that, while the grading quantities are high, once the grading is done
there will no longer be the extreme slope and the house will be sitting on solid bedrock.
He pointed out that the two residents closest to his property are both in favor of the
proposed residence. He reiterated that this is a long narrow building pad that is not
conducive to building any sizeable home if he were to try to stay on that top pad.
Don Stewart stated he is the owner of 5888 Mossbank Drive. He stated that he is not
necessarily opposed to the proposed home, but is concerned with the 4,600 cubic yards
of proposed grading. He did not agree with the architect that once this grading is done
the house will be sitting on bedrock. He noted that he has 16 caissons along his
driveway that go down as deep as 54 feet to reach bedrock. He was also concerned
with the proposed 14 foot tall wall and the position of the driveway. He felt that this will
necessitate quite a bit of digging near the structural areas of his home, noting that his
insurance company has told him that any movement to the homes that causes damage
will not be covered. He suggested the driveway be moved further east on the property,
which would require much less grading on the property.
Beth Tarbuck stated she lives at 5827 Finecrest Drive and the property is directly
adjacent to the applicant's property. She was concerned that the proposed project
drastically ignores the neighborhood character and feel. Additionally, the proposed
project would significantly infringe on her privacy from the second story, as it would look
directly into her primary living area. She asked that the Commission deny the request
as currently proposed.
Mr. Tavasi (in rebuttal) stated he would like to see the property developed as designed
to take advantage of the views. He stated it was not his intent to block any views or
infringe on anyone's privacy. He stated that the house will be sitting on bedrock and
there will be caissons, but they will be for the driveway.
Commissioner Leon asked if geology has been done to identify bedrock on the property.
Mr. Tavasi answered that there is a soils report for the property and the bedrock has
been identified on the property. He asked if he were to move the structure in so there is
no view blockage from Finecrest, would he still be able to do the driveway and garage in
a similar location, further west.
Commissioner Lewis noted that the staff report states there is a 35 foot width on the
building pad, however the applicant disagrees. He asked staff to explain the disconnect
between the report and what the applicant is telling the Commission.
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August 10,2010
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Assistant Planner Kim explained the 35 foot width was measured off of the submitted
site plan and grading plans.
Commissioner Lewis asked if it was measured at 35 feet continuously or at intervals.
Assistant Planner Kim answered that it measured 35 feet continuously.
Commissioner Knight asked how much of the area would be buildable without the need
for a Variance.
Assistant Planner Kim answered approximately 35 feet in width by 100 feet in length.
Commissioner Lewis moved to deny the proposed project, with prejudice.
The motion failed due to lack of a second.
Commissioner Knight explained that he viewed this Variance as a request to allow a
house that is too big for the lot, not because there is an unusual or extraordinary
circumstance. He was also concerned with the high amount of grading that was being
requested. He felt that this proposed house was much too big for the lot and was not
able to make the findings.
Commissioner Knight moved to deny the proposed project, without prejudice,
seconded by Commissioner Emenhiser.
Commissioner Emenhiser stated he was very concerned with the view and privacy
infringements, as well as the bulk and mass of the project.
Commissioner Leon also felt that this proposal was too big for the lot and a smaller
structure could be built that would not require the significant variances currently being
requested.
Chairman Gerstner agreed that there are too many variances being requested to allow
this large structure to be built on the lot. He felt that even a smaller structure may
require some type of variance, given the configuration of the lot, however the variances
would be to a much lesser degree.
The motion to deny the current project without prejudice was approved, (4-1) with
Commissioner Lewis dissenting.
3. Site Plan Review & Variance (Case No. ZON2009-00367): 2422 Colt Road
Assistant Planner Harwell presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the project
and the need for the Variance. She stated staff was able to make all of the required
findings for neighborhood compatibility as well as the required findings to support the
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August 10,2010
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Variance request. With that, staff is recommending approval of the Site Plan Review
and Variance, as conditioned in the staff report.
Commissioner Knight noted that the proposed new shop could be used as a garage,
and if the applicant were to do that would he then be able to convert the existing garage
to habitable space.
Director Rojas answered that the applicant would be able to do that as long as he meets
the minimum code requirement of a two car garage.
Commissioner Knight referred to the site plan, and asked if the structure were to be
moved in one direction, would a variance still be needed.
Assistant Planner Harwell answered that if the structure were moved there would be the
potential that a variance would not be needed if the structure meets the minimum
setback from the edge of the easement.
Commissioner Leon asked if Little Colt Road is a city street or a private driveway.
Director Rojas answered that Colt Road and Little Colt Road are private streets.
Chairman Gerstner opened the public hearing.
Steven Jones (architect) felt the project before the Commission is a textbook example of
why variances were written into City codes. He noted that in this case there is an
easement for a road however the topography prevents a road from being built any time
in the future. In regards to the use of the garage, he explained that the existing garage
is under the existing home and is semi-subterranean. He stated that there is no
connection to the house so it would be very difficult and expensive to make it into
habitable space. He explained that the purpose of this proposed structure is to use it as
a shop, as the owner does a lot of wood working as a hobby. He noted that he
purposely designed the windows to be small so that there will not be much noise
outside the window, but to utilize natural light when available.
Chairman Gerstner asked how much farther up this easement continues.
Mr. Jones explained that the easement goes to the bottom of the canyon, noting that
only about one-third of the easement is paved.
Commissioner Knight noted that one of the findings for the Variance is that there are
unusual or extraordinary circumstances on the property. He asked Mr. Jones why he
couldn't move the structure in a different direction and avoid the need for the Variance.
Mr. Jones answered that would put the structure in the only useful yard space on the
property.
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August 10,2010
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Commissioner Lewis asked if the area behind the retaining wall is an extreme slope.
Mr. Jones did not know if it was an extreme slope or not, but did not think the slope was
buildable.
Chairman Gerstner closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Lewis stated that this property was for sale several years ago and he
toured it several times, however he did not glean anything from the physical tours that
affects this discussion.
Commissioner Lewis moved to adopt staffs recommendation for approval,
seconded by Commissioner Emenhiser.
Commissioner Lewis stated that he could support the project, but was disappointed that
yet another home was losing its horse keeping potential.
Commissioner Leon stated if this structure were called a barn rather than a garage, then
from an equestrian standpoint everyone would be happy. He noted that there is plenty
of open space on the property to add horses at a future date, and it would be fairly easy
to convert a garage shop into a barn. He also felt this proposed shop is sited well on
the property in that it provides a view from the shop, it doesn't obstruct views from other
properties, and it provides for the possible keeping of horses in the future.
The motion to approve the request, thereby adopting PC Resolution 2010-26 was
approved as conditioned by staff, (5-0).
4. General Plan Update— "Draft" Visual Resources Element
Deputy Community Development Director Pfost presented the staff report, explaining
that the visual resources element includes discussions of views and vistas as well as
discussions on urban design. He explained that he will send electronic copies of this
draft element to the subcommittee, and will work with the subcommittee over the next
month to present to the Commission.
Commissioner Knight referred to trees on neighborhood streets, and asked if there was
anything in this section that addresses the desire to try to keep trees on neighborhood
streets, as they create a different ambiance and character in the neighborhood.
Deputy Director Pfost answered there is nothing right now, however he felt it might be
something that is worthy of researching and possibly adding.
Deputy Director Pfost stated that he will forward the draft visual resources element to
the committee for review.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Planning Commission Minutes
August 10,2010
Page 7
S. Minutes for July 13, 2010
Commissioner Knight noted a revision to page 7 of the minutes.
Commissioner Knight moved to approve the minutes as amended, seconded by
Commissioner Emenhiser. The minutes were approved, (4-0-1) with Chairman
Gerstner abstaining since he was absent from that meeting.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
6. Pre-Agenda for the meeting on August 24, 2010
The Commission reviewed and approved the pre-agenda.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 8:45 p.m.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 10,2010
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