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September 2 , 009
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 11, 2009
CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Lewis at 7:08 p.m. at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Perestarn led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.
ATTENDANCE
Present: Commissioners Perestam, Ruttenberg, Tomblin, Vice Chairman Gerstner,
and Chairman Lewis.
Absent: Commissioners Knight and Tetreault were excused. Commissioner
Tomblin arrived after agenda item No. 4.
Also present were Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Rojas, Senior
Planner Schonborn, Associate Planner Mikhail, Assistant Planner Kim, and Assistant
Planner Harwell
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The Commission unanimously agreed to move agenda item No. 4 to be heard after
agenda item No. 1.
COMMUNICATIONS
Director Rojas reported that at their August 4th meeting the City Council concurred with
the Planning Commission's recommendation to approve the clean-up zone change for
Tract 16540 near the Portuguese Bend Club. He also noted that the Council will hear
the appeal of the PlanningCommission's decision on the Mamount College project at
the upcoming August 18th meeting. Mary
mount
Finally, he reported that a joint Planning
Commission and City Council workshop has been scheduled for Tuesday, September
29th. The main topic being discussed will be the forthcoming General Plan update.
Director Rojas distributed two items of correspondence for agenda item No. 1, one item
for agenda item No. 3, and 13 items for agenda item No. 5.
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE (regarding non-agenda itgnLs)e
None
CONTINUED BUSINESS
1. Height Variation (Case No. ZON2008-00186): 26325 Birchfield Avenue
Director Rojas presented a brief staff report, explaining that the applicant has formally
withdrawn the Height Variation application.
The Planning Commission accepted the withdrawal of the application.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
4. Appeal of Site Plan Review & Grading Permit (Case No. ZON2009-00483):
30 Stallion Road
Director Rojas presented the staff report, noting the applicant has requested a
continuance. Staff agrees and recommends a continuance of the public hearing to
October 27th
Commissioner Perestarn moved to continue the public hearing to October 27,
2009, seconded by Commissioner Ruttenberg. Approved, (4-0).
2. Height Variation & Site Plan Review (Case No. ZON2009-00222): 28033
Golden Meadow Drive
Associate Planner Mikhail presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the project
and the need for the height variation. She stated that staff was able to make the
necessary findings and was recommending approval of the project.
Commissioner Ruttenberg noted the neighbor from Palos Verdes Estates who
expressed privacy concerns. He understood that the Commission is not legally bound
to consider privacy issues from residents in other cities, but asked if this neighbor were
in Rancho Palos Verdes if they would have a legitimate concern.
Associate Planner Mikhail answered that they most likely would have a legitimate
concern. She noted, however, that staff had explained the concern to the applicants
and they have agreed to make the windows on the side of the addition opaque.
Chairman Lewis opened the public hearing.
Wayne Sun (architect) stated he agrees with the staff report and is available to answer
any questions.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 11,2008
Page 2
Commissioner Perestarn noted that there is quite a bit of debris on the slope of this
property and asked Mr. Sun if there is any intention of cleaning it up.
Mr. Sun answered that they are willing to build a retaining wall on the property.
George Porter stated he is speaking on behalf of Rita Cody whose property abuts the
applicant's property. He explained that the issues involved are the possible erosion of
the steep bank on the property and privacy. He explained that the wall that is currently
in place on the slope is crumbling and needs to be rebuilt. He suggested it be rebuilt
with and provided with a waterproof gutter to drain the excess water to the low side of
the property. He recommended that roof gutters be placed on the house and addition.
He also recommended the slope be covered with adequate vegetation to mitigate soil
erosion.
Commissioner Perestarn asked Mr. Porter if he is aware of any erosion problems on this
property.
Mr. Porter answered that he is aware of past erosion problems on the property.
Mr. Sun (in rebuttal) stated that the owner is willing to rebuild the existing retaining wall
and add some vegetation around the-wall and on the slope to help with any erosion.
Chairman Lewis closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Perestarn asked if the erosion situation on the property would be
reviewed and addressed, and a recommendation put in place before any building
permits are issued.
Associate Planner Mikhail clarified that an erosion problem has not been determined on
the property. She explained that the neighbor approached staff about the wall and staff
referred the neighbor to code enforcement and the building official to determine if there
were any issues with the wall. She stated that there does not appear to be an issue at
this time. Further, Building and Safety will address drainage during the plan check
process.
Vice Chairman Gerstner moved to adopt P.C. Resolution 2009-32 thereby
approving the Height Variation and Site Plan Review as recommended by staff,
seconded by Commissioner Tomblin. Approved, (5-0).
3. Conditional Use Permit& Minor Exception Permit (Case No. ZON2009-
00182): 28732 Highridge Road
Assistant Planner Kim presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the project and
the need for the Minor Exception Permit. She explained the need for the Minor
Exception Permit and noted staffs support of the Minor Exception Permit based on
Planning Commission Minutes
August 11,2008
Page 3
practical difficulties. She stated that staff was recommending approval of the project as
conditioned in the staff report.
Chairman Lewis opened the public hearing.
Tim Miller (representing T-Mobile) explained that this project is needed to provide
coverage to an area of the peninsula that is mostly residential. He stated that T-Mobile
looked at other surrounding properties, however this property was the most willing to
work with T-Mobile.
Commissioner Tomblin stated that he is not a supporter of the artificial pine trees, as he
does not think they ever turn out quite right. He asked if there was some other method
that can be used at the site and still achieve their goal.
Mr. Miller answered there are other methods, however at this particular location with
other tall pine trees in the area, he felt this would be the best fit.
Dale Hanks (representing the LIDS Church) stated the church does not object to the
proposed construction, as they feel it will improve cell phone service for T-Mobile
customers. He asked if this antenna will in any way affect customers of other cell
providers. He also noted that he was not aware of anyone at the LDS Church being
approached by T-Mobile regarding the placement of the equipment on their property.
He had questions about access to the site during construction, as it appears the access
may have to be through the church parking lot. He stated that he personally was
concerned about the height of the antenna. He stated that he would rather see
communication equipment on the property rather than a disguised pine tree. He felt that
providing equipment alone would look better and have less wind load.
Mr. Mille (in rebuttal) explained that in all of T-Mobile's dealings with the LDS Church
they have been turned away and therefore they do not consider the church as an
alternative. Regarding access to the site, he did not anticipate the need to use the
church site. However, there was the possibility that they would need the site for the drill
rig, in which case they would get permission from the church before gaining access.
The church would be compensated for the access and if any damage occurred to the
parking lot they would also be compensated.
Commissioner Tomblin stated again that he was not generally pleased with the way
these pine trees look, and asked Mr. Miller if he would consider some additional
discussion with the church. He felt that putting the antennas on the church property
may allow for a more creative way to disguise the antennas.
Mr. Miller explained that while Mr. Hanks may be amenable to entering into a lease with
T-Mobile, the problem has always come with the approvals from the church at a higher
level.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 11,2008
Page 4
Commissioner Perestam asked Mr. Miller if T-Mobile would be receptive to sharing the
site with another carrier.
Mr. Miller answered that T-Mobile has agreement with all of the other carriers and would
be very willing to share the site with the other carriers.
Chairman Lewis closed the public hearing.
Director Rojas explained that staff is usually not agreeable to allowing this type of
method for camouflaging antennas in the City, however because of the location of the
antenna and given the other trees on the site, staff felt that most people would not even
realize the artificial tree antenna has been placed on the site.
Vice Chairman Gerstner felt that if this site could handle a taller monopole, the applicant
and City might want to consider accommodating a foundation that can, in the future,
handle a taller pole. He felt this would be a better alternative than seeing several new
poles on this or neighboring properties in the future. He noted that the Commission
would not be deciding at this point in time if a taller pole can be placed on the property
at this time, however preparing a foundation for the future use may be beneficial to the
applicant.
Chairman Lewis re-opened the public hearing.
Mr. Miller explained that T-Mobile is receptive to having other carriers co-locate on their
pole. He also felt that if another carrier wants to come in and increase the height of the
pole, it will be at their expense to change out the pole. He added that it will be hard to
justify the additional cost of a caisson foundation to support a larger future pole,
however if the Commission conditions the approval in that way, they will abide by the
condition.
Chairman Lewis closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Tomblin stated that he was not in favor of this tree until he heard that
there was the possibility of conditioning the approval to allow for future carriers on the
pole.
Commissioner Perestarn stated that he was not generally in favor of requiring the
applicant design a foundation that can hold a future larger pole. He stated that there
was no guarantee that any carrier would ask to co-locate at this site, noting that there
are many sites in the area where other antennas could be located, many of which are in
Rolling Hills Estates.
Commissioner Perestam moved adopt P.C. Resolution 2009-33 thereby approving
the Conditional Use Permit and Minor Exception Permit as recommended by staff,
seconded by Commissioner Perestam. Approved, (4-1) with Commissioner
Tomblin dissenting.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 11,2008
Page 5
NEW BUSINESS
6. Interpretation Hearing Reguest (Case No. ZON2009-00146): 6001 Palos
Verdes Drive South
Senior Planner Schonborn presented the staff report, explaining the requested use of
the land as an event garden. In submitting the application the applicant contended that
that the proposed uses qualified as uses that are similar and no more intensive than a
golf course and the ancillary uses, which are allowed in residential areas with the
approval of a Conditional Use Permit. He explained that staff returned the application to
the property owner and the Director issued an interpretation formalizing why staff would
not accept a Conditional Use Permit application for the proposed event garden. He
explained the interpretation and rational behind the interpretation, as noted in the staff
report. He stated that staff was recommending the Planning Commission uphold the
Director's interpretation.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked if the Trump property and the Point View property are
similar in size.
Senior Planner Schonborn answered that they are similar in size.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked if there are any other residential zoned properties in
the city that are of a similar size.
Senior Planner Schonborn answered that he was not aware of any other residential
property of a similar size.
Commissioner Ruttenberg explained that he understood how staff was distinguishing
this situation from those on church property or park property, however he was having a
little more trouble understanding how staff distinguished this property from the Trump
property.
Senior Planner Schonborn explained that the Trump property currently has residential
unites built on the property as well as the club house and other amenities, where the
subject property does not.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked if there would be a difference if the Point View
property had a residence built on the property and asked for this Conditional Use
Permit.
Director Rojas explained that a residential zoned property, whether it is vacant or
developed, is governed by the underlying zoning as to what uses the code allows. Staff
feels that this property should be compared to other residentially zoned properties in the
Planning Commission Minutes
August 11,2008
Page 6
City, however the applicant wants to make a comparison with the Trump property. Staff
feels that the Trump property is not the same, as there is a Conditional Use Permit
which governs the golf course and club house on the property. He noted that if the
residences on the Trump property requested a similar use the City would say that it is
not allowed.
Commissioner Perestarn asked staff how often a property owner could apply for a
Special Use Permit.
Director Rojas answered that there is not a limit on the number of Special Use Permits
that can be issued for events on a property, however at some point staff will determine
that the use may go beyond the intent for a Special Use Permit and determine that the
use is a regular use that is not allowed.
Vice Chairman Gerstner read the list of conditional uses allowed per the Code, noting
the final statement which says other such uses as deemed to be similar and no more
intensive. He asked staff what makes this request dissimilar from the other conditional
uses and where is the line in intensity in comparing this requested use to the others.
Director Rojas noted that determining whether a proposed use is no more intensive than
other conditional uses listed in the code is a discretionary decision. He explained that
the applicant's proposal would allow outside groups to lease the property to have up to
100 events per year throughout the entire year. Staff considered that in making a
determination on whether this type of use constitutes a conditionally allowed use in a
residential zone. He noted that the determination would have repercussions citywide as
it would allow for other to apply for this type of use in any residential zone in the City.
He explained that after consultation with the City Attorney, staff took the conservative
position that the proposal was more intense than other conditionally allowed uses in
residential zones. He explained that staff suggested to the applicant that if he felt his
property was large enough to handle this use, he should lobby for a code amendment
that would conditionally allow these types of uses on residential properties over 50
acres in size.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked how this type of use, in terms of intensity, compares
with the use at Trump.
Director Rojas agreed that the intensity of the use may be comparable to the golf course
and clubhouse at Trump but that there were certain elements of the proposed use that
could be more intensive. Thus, staff took the more conservative approach in makings
its determination.
Chairman Lewis noted that there have been some improvements, such as a road, on
the applicant's property and asked if all of the required approvals and permits have
been issued for the improvements.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 11,2008
Page 7
Senior Planner Schonborn explained that the applicant has obtained the necessary
Moratorium Exclusion Permit and building permits to move forward with improvements
to the cook shack facility. Staff is working with the applicant to address a few things
done on the property without the benefit of permits. He noted that throughout the
process, there has been discussions on the ultimate intended use of the property.
Director Rojas added that staff has been aware that the applicant has been having
personal private parties on the property and has been monitoring the activities on the
property to see if they are permitted or not.
Chairman Lewis opened the public hearing.
Jim York (applicant) explained that over the years several organizations have held
events on this property, and he has started making improvements to the property with
the intention of having some type of outside events held on the property. He stated that
it was his understanding that he could have parties on the property, but couldn't charge
anyone for these parties. He explained that he has talked to the neighbors about this
proposal and they had three principle concerns. The first was with traffic, so he built a
road so that the private roads in Portuguese Bend will not have to be used. The second
concern was with fire, so he worked with the Fire Department and built a fire road on the
property. The third concern was with-noise, so he designed a system where he can
have speakers focused and broadcast towards the ocean. He felt that this property is
unique and that a Conditional Use Permit should be granted for the use at the property.
Gary Weber stated he was speaking on behalf of York Long Point properties. He
discussed the Conditional Use Permit process and the flexibility this permit allows for
uses on a property that don't fit neatly into the language of the Code. He noted that part
of the purpose of a Conditional Use Permit is to allow a use that is necessary or
desirable for the development of the community that cannot be classified as permitted
uses. He noted that this requested event garden is not necessary, however he felt that
the use is desirable. He pointed out that Mr. York has been approached by people from
the community, social organizations, and cultural organizations requesting permission to
hold activities on the property. He felt that staff has interpreted the Code too narrowly
and he believes the Planning Director should have allowed the Conditional Use Permit
application to be processed and allowed the Planning Commission to review the
application.
Donna Ciminera stated she is the outgoing chairman of the board for Las Candalistas.
She discussed how returning to Mr. York's property to hold the Walk on the Wildside
event would benefit Las Candalistas in many ways. She expressed Las Candalistas
support in Mr. York's request for the event garden on his property.
Scott Fellows felt that this event garden will offer access that is not granted, due to
financial concerns, by the Trump organization. He felt that many Rancho Palos Verdes
residents cannot afford to hold events at the Trump property where they will be able to
Planning Commission Minutes
August 11,2008
Page 8
use this event garden. He encouraged the Planning Commission to approve the
requested CUP.
Robert Maxwell stated he is the liaison for the Portuguese Bend Community
Association, which borders Mr. York's property. He explained that the Board opposes
the Conditional Use Permit, as they felt that weddings and special events held at the
site could be handled through a Special Use Permit. He felt that allowing a Conditional
Use Permit will make the number of events held at the site too burdensome for the
community. The Board opposed the frequency of 100 events per year at the site. He
stated that the Board supports staffs decision and encouraged the Commission to do
the same.
Monica Mortensen stated she is on the board of directors for Los Candalistas and
expressed her support for Mr. York's proposal.
Mr. York (in rebuttal) stated that he has met with all of the Board members of the
Portuguese Bend Community Association, but did not recognize Mr. Maxwell as part of
that board. He stated that he has addressed all of the issues raised by the board in
their meetings, specifically noise, traffic, and fire.
Chairman Lewis closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked staff if the Planning Commission is being asked to
issue a Conditional Use Permit for the property, or if the Planning Commission is being
asked to determine if the applicant is entitled to submit and have a public hearing for a
Conditional Use Permit application.
Director Rojas answered that the Planning Commission is being asked to determine if
this type of use is a use that could be allowed in a residential zone with approval of a
Conditional Use Permit application. He added that this is a zoning determination that
not only applies to this property but all other residentially zoned properties in the city.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked staff, in making his own decision on the matter, if he
was to be looking at the code and determining whether or not he deems this requested
use is similar and no more intensive than those other uses listed in the code.
Director Rojas answered that was correct.
Vice Chairman Gerstner asked staff if their decision that this use may be more intensive
was based on an individual event, the quantity of events, or a combination of the two.
Director Rojas answered that staff made the determination that this use is more
intensive based on the types of events and the number of events.
S
Vice Chairman Gerstner acknowledged that an event held on the property may be a
more intensive use in terms of noise, number of people, and hours. However, he asked
Planning Commission Minutes
August 11,2008
Page 9
staff if they considered this use more intensive with reasonable conditions of approval in
place.
Director Rojas answered that even with conditions of approval in place staff felt this use
was more intensive. He noted that it was staffs understanding that these events would
be taking place day and night, where active recreation, which is a conditional use
allowed in residential zones, is typically day use. Furthermore, he noted that the events
include music and noise which occur outside while other venues, such as the Trump
Clubhouse, typically have such events indoors. He also explained that there is also the
consideration as to how many events per week or per year is considered too many.
Staff felt that the possibility of 100 events per year seemed excessive.
Chairman Lewis asked staff if their concern was also that if the ability to apply for a
Conditional Use Permit for this residential property is granted there is a concern that
other residents in the city could apply for a Conditional Use Permit to hold events on
their residential properties.
Director Rojas answered that is the main concern of staff. He explained that the
Commission is used to looking at an application and making a determination as to
whether or not the request will work for that particular property. The question before the
Commission with this request is not whether this use could work on this property but
whether this will work in any zoning district in the City. He stated there are many homes
in the City that are quite large and have beautiful views, and staff could see the
possibility of these property owners applying for a Conditional Use Permit to allow their
property to be rented out for events.
Commissioner Tomblin felt this is a matter of process. He asked staff to summarize
what the application Mr. York presented to staff was for and what are the processes
available to Mr. York in order for him to have his event garden.
Director Rojas explained that Mr. York submitted a Conditional Use Permit application
which staff rejected, saying that the proposed use is not a use allowed on the property.
He explained again that staff is very concerned that this decision is one that will
reverberate city wide to all residential zoning districts in the City. Staff felt that the
applicant makes a good point in that this property is unique and staff felt that a more
ideal solution may be to amend the code to allow these types of uses on properties over
a. certain size as a conditional use. This would prevent this type of use in most
neighborhoods throughout the City.
Commissioner Tomblin asked how a code amendment would be initiated.
Director Rojas explained that a code amendment can be initiated by an applicant, by
staff, or by the Planning Commission. The initiation request would go to the City
Council, who would have to agree with the initiation, and then go through the formal
code amendment process.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 11,2008
Page 10
Vice Chairman Gerstner could see potential problems with a code amendment. He
questioned why this request couldn't be interpreted as, because of the unique nature of
this property within that zoning district, it warrants consideration as a conditional use. In
the future, if a resident came to the City to request a Conditional Use Permit for the
same purpose, the City should be able to look at the circumstances and note that there
may not be extraordinary circumstances related to that property and they therefore do
not warrant the granting of the Conditional Use Permit.
Director Rojas understood the Vice Chairman's comment, however he noted that this is
a zoning issue and it does not take into account the lot size and other issues, unless
there are criteria in the zoning uses that give the City that discretion.
Commissioner Perestarn stated that he would like to hear from Mr. York on.the idea of
initiating a code amendment.
Chairman Lewis re-opened the public hearing.
Gary Weber explained that a code amendment process is a lengthy process which may
involve CEQA.
Chairman Lewis closed the public-hearing.
Commissioner Ruttenberg felt that Mr. York should be allowed to at least submit his
Conditional Use Permit application so that it can be reviewed by staff and the Planning
Commission. He stressed that this does not mean he would necessarily be in favor of
the application, only that he should be allowed to be heard.
Commissioner Ruttenberg moved to reverse the Director's interpretation and
agree with the applicant to the limited extent that the proposed use of offering
residentially zoned property for rent to private entities to conduct private parties,
weddings, receptions, charity events, and the like might, under appropriate
circumstances and conditions, be sufficiently similar to other conditionally
permitted uses to allow through approval of a Conditional Use Permit, seconded
by Vice Chairman Gerstner.
Commissioner Tomblin understood staffs concerns, however he felt that a property
owner should have the right to go through a process. He felt that the message that staff
has concerns about would be delivered at the time the Commission renders its decision,
and the precedent would be set at the Commission level to help defray similar
applications from coming through.
Chairman Lewis asked staff if all of the events described by Mr. York could be done
through the application of a Special Use Permit.
Director Rojas answered that was correct.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 11,2008
Page 11
Chairman Lewis then noted that what is being discussed would be the frequency of
these events and the individual permitting process for each event.
Vice Chairman Gerstner noted, however, that there is a rather large fee attached to
each Special Use Permit application that can only be waived by the City Council.
Chairman Lewis stated that he would be voting against the motion. He explained that
he did not feel the proposed use was similar to any of the uses in the Code (A through
K), nor is it any less intensive.
Commissioner Perestarn stated he would also vote against the motion. He felt that a
Special Use Permit would handle the volume of events being held on the property, at
least for the next year.
The motion to reverse the Director's decision thereby determining the proposed
use is a conditionally allowed use in an RS zone was approved, (3-2) with
Commissioner Perestam and Chairman Lewis dissenting
Director Rojas stated that staff will present a Resolution memorializing this decision to
the Commission at the next meeting under the Consent Calendar.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Ery Minutes of June 23„ 2009
Vice Chairman Gerstner noted a typo on page 23 of the minutes.
Vice Chairman Gerstner moved to approve the minutes as amended, seconded by
Commissioner Tomblin. Approved, (5-0) with Commissioners Perestarn and
utters erg abstaining from agenda item No. 1.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
Chairman Lewis requested that an item be added to the next agenda where all seven of
the Commissioners were expected to attend regarding possible topics for the upcoming
Planning Commission / City Council workshop.
7. Pre-Agenda for the meeting on August 26, 2009
The pre-agenda was discussed and approved.
ADJOURNMENT'
The meeting was adjourned at 9:35 p.m.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 11,2008
Page 12