PC MINS 20081211 Approved
February 10, 2009
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
DECEMBER 11, 2008
CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Perestam at 7:10 p.m. at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Ruttenberg led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.
ATTENDANCE
Present: Commissioners Knight, Ruttenberg, Tomblin, and Chairman Perestam.
Commissioner Tetreault arrived before Agenda Item No. 5
Absent: Commissioner Gerstner and Vice Chairman Lewis were excused.
Also present were Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Rojas, Senior
Planner Schonborn, and Assistant Planner Kim.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The agenda was unanimously approved as presented.
COMMUNICATIONS
Chairman Perestam and Commissioners Knight and Ruttenberg noted that a neighbor
associated with agenda item No. 4 had contacted them.
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE (regarding non-agenda items):
None
CONSENT CALENDAR
1. Variance (Case No. ZON2008-00489): 28060 Lobrook Drive
Chairman Perestam moved to approve the Consent Calendar, thereby adopting
PC Resolution 2008-51 approving the Variance, seconded by Commissioner
Knight. Approved, (4-0).
CONTINUED BUSINESS
2. Conditional Use Permit (Case No. ZON2008-00477): 5801 Crestridge Road
Assistant Planner Kim presented the staff report, giving the history and scope of the
project, and explaining how the project has been revised since it was last before the
Commission. She showed photographs taken from properties on Mistridge Drive where
there had been concerns with view impairment, noting that with the redesigned project
there is no longer any view impairment. She stated that given the previous view
impairment has been completely eliminated by the removal of the smaller parapet, staff
feels the applicant has adequately addressed the Planning Commission's concerns
from the previous meeting and recommends approval of the project as conditioned in
the staff report.
Justin Robinson (applicant representing Verizon Wireless) stated that the second
parapet has been eliminated, hopefully eliminating any view impairment from the
neighbors' homes. He requested that condition No. 17 be modified to add language
stating "upon request of the Planning Director".
Commissioner Ruttenberg noted a piece of correspondence received regarding the
proposed color of the project.
Mr. Robinson explained that the color and design will be consistent with the Canterbury.
Chairman Perestam stated that one of the discussions at the last meeting revolved
around the trade-offs involved with modifying the project and the effectiveness of the
antennas with certain trade-offs. He asked Mr. Robinson about the trade-offs that
occurred with this modification.
Mr. Robinson explained that there has been a trade-off with this redesign. He explained
the primary objective of the site is to cover Crestridge Road and the secondary objective
is coverage up the hill. He stated that Verizon Wireless is trading off a greater capability
going up the hill with this redesign.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked what percentage of trade-off there will be.
Mr. Robinson guessed that for the one sector there may be a 30 to 40 percent
degradation.
Patricia Arand (5731 Mistridge Drive) stated that her home directly overlooks the
Canterbury. She stated that most of her initial concerns have been mitigated, and that
her final concern is about the color of the installation. She assumed the color would be
the same as the rock roof that it will be installed on, however she has learned it will be
the same beige color at the building. She felt this will give the impression of a four-story
building. She asked that the color be the same as the rock roof.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 2
Mr. Robinson stated that he will be willing to keep the color scheme uniform with the
rest of the building, or whatever color scheme the Canterbury chooses.
Commissioner Knight asked Director Rojas if he had any objections to the wording
change suggested for condition No. 17.
Director Rojas had no objection to the change requested by the applicant.
Chairman Perestam closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Knight moved to adopt PC Resolution 2008-52 thereby approving
the Conditional Use Permit as recommended by staff with the revision to add the
language suggested by the applicant in condition No. 17 and that the color
should be the same color as the walls, seconded by Commissioner Tomblin.
Approved, (4-0).
. Conditional Use Permit (Case No. ZON2007-00243)° 30359 Hawthorne Blvd.
Assistant Planner Kim presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the project.
She explained that staff is recommending denial of the project and summarized the
reasons as outlined in the staff report. She also noted that Verizon Wireless has
provided staff of a plan that indicated that co-location is possible on a light standard
located slightly north of the park. However, because of the parcel being located on Los
Angeles County land, and because the approval process with Los Angeles County is
slow and difficult, the applicant has opted to construct a new monopole instead.
Therefore, staff is recommending denial of the project, as detailed in the staff report.
Commissioner Tomblin asked if a 30-foot monopole is unusually high, or if this is a
standard height.
Assistant Planner Kim explained that the height will depend on the location, noting there
have been taller towers approved at other sites. She added that for this location the
City has not approved any new towers and only approved co-locations.
Chairman Perestam asked if the proposed pole will be visible from Hawthorne
Boulevard.
Assistant Planner Kim answered that the pole will be visible from Hawthorne Boulevard.
Chairman Perestam opened the public hearing.
Robert McCormick (applicant) explained that Verizon Wireless has done a review of the
potential for co-location on the other existing poles in the area, and explained the
difficulties involved with each.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 3
Commissioner Tomblin asked Mr. McCormick why he couldn't combine his antennas
with the ones on the existing light pole.
Mr. McCormick explained that he could locate on the existing light pole, however that
would cause the height of the pole to go up approximately six feet and would increase
the girth of the pole.
Commissioner Tomblin felt it would be helpful for Verizon to provide simulation
photographs to give the Commissioners a better idea of how this proposed project will
look, as well as how the existing poles would look if the antennas were co-located.
Chairman Perestam asked if there was a study done on the effectiveness of using other
poles as compared to the pole that is being proposed.
Mr. McCormick answered that the company looked further down the hill but determined
that this is the most viable area. He noted that major factors in determining location are
line of sight as well as topography, and that the viability of this sight can be proven by
the number of antennas already in existence at the site.
Commissioner Knight agreed with the staff report, in that co-location on existing light
poles seems to be a viable option. He therefore could not support the proposal and
supported staff's recommendation.
Commissioner Ruttenberg stated that this area is zoned for open space recreational use
and the other cell uses that have been approved at the site are not on monopoles. He
stated that if this pole is allowed, there may be applications for more at the site. He
stated that he cannot support this application as submitted, and suggested pursuing the
option at another site through Los Angeles County.
Commissioner Tomblin encouraged Verizon Wireless to find a different, more viable
solution to this problem, as he could not support the project as submitted.
Mr. McCormick requested that, rather than deny the project, the Planning Commission
continue the public hearing to allow Verizon Wireless the opportunity to better evaluate
the co-location options in the area.
.Commissioner Ruttenberg moved to continue the public hearing to the next
available meeting to allow the applicant the opportunity to explore other antenna
options, seconded by Commissioner Tomblin.
Director Rojas stated that the next available meeting is January 13, 2009.
The motion to continue the public hearing to January 13, 2009 was approved, (4-
0).
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 4
4. Variance & Coastal Permit (Case No. Z®N2007-00046)+ 24 Seacove Drive
Senior Planner Schonborn presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the after-
the-fact work that has been performed. He explained that the coastal setback line
traverses many of the coastal bluff properties and there is a 25 foot setback requirement
landward of this line, which creates the coastal structure setback zone. He showed the
applicant's property where the pool, spa, and barbeque have been constructed in the
coastal structure setback area. He explained the need for the Variance application,
noting that staff was able to make the necessary findings. He also stated that the
appropriate soils and geology reports have been submitted and approved by the City
Geologist. He noted that, as indicated in the staff report, staff has received one
comment letter from the neighboring property. This property owner today approached
staff with the probability that additional construction has occurred on the subject
property without the benefit of permits. He stated that staff will need to research this
and therefore staff was recommending that the Planning Commission open the public
hearing to take testimony, but continue the public hearing to allow staff the opportunity
to coordinate with the property owner to validate whether or not there is an addition on
the property built without a permit. If it is determined that there is non-permitted
construction, the case will be given to code enforcement for resolution.
Director Rojas added that it is City policy not to issue a permit for development on a
property where there is an open code enforcement case.
Commissioner Knight asked how many properties on Seacove Drive have structures
built in the coastal setback area.
Senior Planner Schonborn answered that of the sixteen properties on Seacove Drive,
twelve have structures in the coastal setback area. He noted that all twelve were
constructed before the City was incorporated.
Commissioner Knight asked if the structures at 24 Seacove were constructed after City
incorporation.
Senior Planner Schonborn answered that this application is a result of a code
enforcement case in 2007.
Commissioner Ruttenberg noted that one of the findings for a Variance is that the
Variance is necessary for the preservation and enjoyment of a substantial property right,
and he asked if the Code states that having a swimming pool is a substantial property
right.
Senior Planner Schonborn answered that the Code does not indicate that having a pool
is a substantial property right, however it is a permitted use and staff has interpreted
that as an improvement that is enjoyed by other property owners in that zoning district.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 5
Commissioner Ruttenberg questioned the code's use of the words substantial property
right versus staffs interpretation of permitted use.
Senior Planner Schonborn explained that staff has historically looked at what other
property owners in the immediate neighborhood have had the opportunity to do, and
whether or not that is a substantial improvement is relative to the area being discussed.
Commissioner Ruttenberg stated that Seacove Drive has sixteen residences and four of
those have swimming pools that were all built before city incorporation. He felt that one
of the purposes of the city's incorporation was to stop the kind of building being done
under the county and to establish rules to provide more limitations than before. He
questioned to what degree the Commission's decision or interpretation should be
influenced by what happened before city incorporation.
Senior Planner Schonborn felt all of that should be taken into account, but added that
the Commission can then look at a larger area and look at what type of improvements
are allowed on other properties in similarly zoned areas, not afforded the opportunity to
build accessory structures on their property.
Commissioner Ruttenberg's concern was that whenever the Planning Commission
makes a decision to grant a Variance, they open themselves up by having interpreted
the codes a certain way to where the next resident comes before them requesting a
Variance and noting the former interpretation made by the Commission. In this
particular case there are four residences out of sixteen that have swimming pools, and if
this is interpreted as a substantial property right, wouldn't that then put the Planning
Commission in a position where it would be difficult to reject anyone who comes before
them and wants to have a swimming pool that requires a Variance because everywhere
in the City there will be four out of sixteen homes that already have a swimming pool.
Director Rojas agreed that for this particular neighborhood if the Commission is able to
make finding No. 2 regarding the swimming pool, if a future application comes forward it
would be difficult not to make finding No. 2 under the same pretense. However, there
are still other findings that have to be made in order to approve a Variance.
Senior Planner Schonborn added that pools are usually subterranean structures and
therefore are not apparent structures that could otherwise be seen or are visible,
especially along the coastal bluffs. In this particular situation there is still quite a large
setback from the actual bluff top.
Commissioner Ruttenberg recalled that in the past the Trump Organization brought two
homes before the Planning Commission where they wanted to build swimming pools in
the coastal setback area, and the Planning Commission denied the request. He asked
how this request is different.
Director Rojas answered that one difference is that the City approved the Trump tract
thereby establishing the rules and guidelines for where structures can and cannot be
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 6
placed before the lots were developed. In this situation the City is reacting to a
neighborhood that was developed before the city incorporated.
Commissioner Knight suggested that what may be needed in this area is a zone change
and readjustment of the boundaries, rather than having each resident apply for a
Variance whenever they want to do an improvement in the rear of their property.
Director Rojas explained there are two avenues to deal with these situations, either
through a Variance application or through an adjustment of the Coastal Setback Line.
In this case, the applicant opted for the Variance application, staff has analyzed the
application and feels they can make the necessary findings, however if the Commission
can't make the findings there are still some options available to the applicant.
Chairman Perestam opened the public hearing.
Brian Conroy (applicant) began by explaining one of the main differences between the
Trump tract and the tract he lives in is that the Trump tract was a tentative tract map
where that line was established when the tract map was made. He stated that line was
negotiated with staff, and the tract map was then recorded. His area has no such
recorded coastal setback line recorded in their deeds or on a tract map. He felt that
leaves the question as to where the actual coastal setback line is located, and he has
always disagreed with and challenged staff's interpretation as to where that line is
actually located. He feels that staff's interpretation of the coastal setback line location is
not per the Municipal Code, which says you must use the certified zoning map. He
stated that in his tract there are two very new homes that have pools almost on the bluff.
He was asking for equity, to be able to enjoy his yard the same as other people do,
especially since the coastal setback line is so ambiguous and arbitrary.
Commissioner Tomblin noted that Mr. Conroy appears to be very knowledgeable on the
City codes, and asked him why he didn't come before the Planning Commission to get
the necessary approvals and permits before he built his pool.
Mr. Conroy explained that in 2002 he met with staff and presented his plan. At that time
staff couldn't support what he wanted to do. He felt that was very unfair, in that the
neighbors down the street had recently built a pool on the bluff. He therefore decided to
build the pool without permits, and now regrets having done so. He is now trying to
make it right and move on.
Commissioner Tomblin asked who built the pool.
Mr. Conroy answered he is a licensed contractor and built the pool himself.
Commissioner Ruttenberg stated that there is now an assertion from a neighbor that
there is additional unpermitted construction on the property, and asked Mr. Conroy to
comment on that assertion.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 7
Mr. Conroy stated that he would like to request this item be continued to allow him the
time to review with staff the exact nature of these assertions. He admitted that there is
a trellis and some new railings built without permits. He stated that he will have to go
through and see what has been done that requires a permit.
Commissioner Knight asked if any accessory structures, other than the pool, have been
built.
Mr. Conroy answered that only other accessory structure is the fire pit.
Commissioner Ruttenberg noted that Mr. Conroy does not agree with staff as to where
the coastal setback line is located, however he has not brought forth any evidence to
support his claim as to where the line is located.
Mr. Conroy explained that he can bring evidence to the Planning Commission if he is
granted a continuance. He stated that he has the evidence but did not bring it to the
meeting, as he did not think this would be a topic of debate.
Commissioner Knight stated that the Commission received late correspondence from a
neighbor stating there has been some surcharging of the bluff, and asked Mr. Conroy to
comment.
Mr. Conroy stated there is nothing sitting on the bluff to make it collapse, noting his
geologist has looked at the situation, and he has agreed to take out the gravity wall that
was installed.
Eva Wildev (17 Sea Cove Drive) stated she lives across the street from the Conroy
residence and that Mr. Conroy has been a good neighbor and is an asset to the
community. She stated she would like to see this project approved so Mr. Conroy can
have his swimming pool, noting that there are several residences that have swimming
pools in their rear yards.
James Huston stated he is a licensed general contractor and speaking on behalf of
Pamela Simes, Mr. Conroy's neighbor. He felt that the value of the work done at Mr.
Conroy's residence without permits is very substantial. He was concerned that the bluff
has been extended with backfill and retaining walls, all done without permits. In addition
to the backfill and retaining walls, the swimming pool/spa, and fire pit the Conroys have
also installed without permits a large two-story addition, a massive back deck, a block
wall in excess of eight feet in height, and a front trellis and waterfall.
Pamela Simes asked the Planning Commission to deny Mr. Conroy's request to permit
the improvements in his rear yard. She explained that if the structures are allowed to
remain they could result in costly ramifications to her property, neighboring properties,
and become a liability of this Commission and the City. She felt that Mr. Conroy's
unpermitted construction has already put her property in jeopardy due to the surcharge
placed on the bluff, as confirmed by her contractor and engineer. She opposed any
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 8
changes to the determination of the coastal setback line. She stated that Mr. Conroy
has extended the bluff area approximately 60 feet to create added value to his property
with no concern of how it jeopardizes the whole community. She felt that Mr. Conroy
has shown a total disrespect for the law and building codes, and asked the Planning
Commission to deny the request and ask Mr. Conroy to restore the property.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked Ms. Simes if she had a written statement from her
contractor in regards to potential damage to her property.
Ms. Simes replied that she does have a written statement.
Commissioner Ruttenberg explained that he did not know what the decision of the
Planning Commission was going to be, however if the public hearing is continued, he
asked Ms. Simes if she would be able to provide the written statement from the
contractor.
Ms. Simes stated that she would do so.
Mr. Conroy (in rebuttal) stated that he has not been doing construction as his neighbor
has indicated, and did not appreciate being portrayed as one who is sneaking around in
the middle of the night doing things. He felt Ms. Simes has such a personal animosity
towards him is because of a past law suit she had against another neighbor in which he
had been subpoenaed to testify against her. He stated he has done no construction of
any kind on his property in the last two years, and everything Ms. Simes states is
hyperbole.
Commissioner Tomblin asked Mr. Conroy when he purchased the property, and if he
was aware of the coastal setback line when he purchased the property.
Mr. Conroy purchased the property in 1986 and at the time of purchase he was aware
that the property contained a coastal setback line, and upon further investigation after
he had bought the property, he discovered the anomalies with the line.
Commissioner Knight noted statements that have been made that the applicant has
extended his rear yard approximately 60 feet, and that part of staff's recommendation is
to remove a retaining wall on the property. He asked if this retaining wall is in the same
area as discussed by Ms. Simes.
Senior Planner Schonborn noted the area of fill on a photograph, and that staff's
recommendation is to remove the wall and restore the bluff area to the original
condition.
Commissioner Tomblin asked when the coastal setback line was put into place.
Senior Planner Schonborn answered that the coastal setback line was put in place with
the adoption of the Coastal Specific Plan in 1978.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 9
Commissioner Tomblin asked staff what the Planning Commission can do to take the
area back to what the property was prior to construction of all of the illegal structures
and grading in the rear of the applicant's property.
Senior Planner Schonborn explained that there is staff's recommendation or the
Planning Commission could deny the application. He noted that whatever decision the
Planning Commission makes, that decision is appealable to the City Council. Further,
because this area is in an area of the coastal zone considered an appealable area, an
interested party does have the ability to appeal the coastal permit aspect to the Coastal
Commission.
Director Rojas added that there is an application before the Commission and the
Commission has different options on that application. Based on the Commission's
action on the Variance, the applicant has different options available to him for having
the Commission weigh in on the location of the coastal setback line. He stated that
there are also new allegations of unpermitted construction, which staff will investigate
and track through code enforcement, if needed.
Commissioner Tomblin summarized that, according to the applicant, he bought a
property knowing that there was a coastal setback line in place. After buying the
property he discussed construction plans with the City, and staff gave recommendations
on what they would and would not consider as part of an application process. Because
he was in disagreement with what he heard from staff, the applicant went ahead, in
disregard of the law, and started construction.
Director Rojas stated that is what the record shows.
Commissioner Knight asked staff, if this application were to be denied, would the case
then be directed to code enforcement for resolution.
Director Rojas explained that this application is a result of a code enforcement case,
explaining that it was brought to the City's attention that work was being conducted at
the site without the proper City approvals or permits. He stated that a Stop Work Notice
was issued. To rectify the matter, the applicant originally went down the avenue of an
interpretation of where the coastal setback line is on his property. Ultimately, the
applicant agreed to not pursue that avenue and a Variance was requested. What has
not changed, however, is that the work being discussed is not permitted and is still a
code enforcement matter and will, if necessary, go back to code enforcement for
resolution.
Chairman Perestam asked how the evaluation will be different if the applicant decides to
apply to actually change the location of the coastal setback line.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 10
Director Rojas explained that a zone change would be required as well as a Coastal
Specific Plan amendment. He stated that this would have to be approved by the
Coastal Commission as well as the City.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked staff if they were going to investigate the alleged
unpermitted work on the property.
Director Rojas answered that staff is going to pursue the alleged unpermitted work
whether the Commission continues the public hearing, approves the application, or
denies the application.
Commissioner Ruttenberg stated that the applicant was asking for equity in regards to
being allowed to have the pool and other improvements, however he disagreed. He did
not want to hear about equities in this situation where there has clearly and admittedly
been a direct violation of the laws. There has been unpermitted construction on the
property by a general contractor. That being said, he was supportive of the request to
continue the public hearing to allow staff the opportunity to investigate the claims of
additional unpermitted construction on the property.
Commissioner Knight stated that he was having trouble with the findings for the
Variance and Coastal Permit. He was also concerned with Staff's justification for the
Variance, as he felt if the Commission approves this request it would be difficult not to
approve other similar requests. He did not think the Variance process was the
appropriate process to change the coastal setback line, and that an application to
change the coastal setback line was more appropriate.
Commissioner Tomblin stated that he could not support the Variance and would vote to
deny the application. He agreed with Commissioner Knight that an application to
change the coastal setback line would be more appropriate. He stated that as much as
he is appalled by the disregard of the law by a licensed contractor, he cannot let that
affect his judgment. He asked staff, if the public hearing were to be continued, what
would be remedied to make this any different than it is at this hearing.
Senior Planner Schonborn did not know what additional information could be provided
that would change this application, as staff will investigate the allegations of non-
permitted construction. He noted that if it is determined that construction has occurred
on the residence without permits, the legalization of said construction may or may not
have to come before the Planning Commission for approval.
Chairman Perestam was in favor of continuing the public hearing to give staff the
opportunity to investigate some of the questions that have been raised while the
application is still before the Commission. He felt it was important to know if there is
information that would change the impact on the Variance decision. He would also like
staff to explore the steps involved in changing the location of the coastal setback line,
specifically if there is geologic review necessary.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 11
Commissioner Tomblin stated that since the bluff has been altered, he would like to see
some determination from staff of where the bluff was located before being added on to.
Commissioner Ruttenberg noted that the applicant had agreed to put on hold the
determination of the coastal setback line so that he could apply for the Variance. He
asked if there was a way to join that determination request with the Variance to be
heard before the Planning Commission at the same time. He felt that if the Variance is
denied then no progress has been made towards resolution, and that more progress
can be made to handle both together.
Director Rojas answered that is a decision for the applicant to make, as he put the
coastal setback line determination on hold. However, it may make sense to hear the
line determination issue before the Variance application, because if the Planning
Commission agrees with the applicant's position on the line location, the Variance will
no longer be necessary. He stated that staff will also have to check with the City
Attorney.
Chairman Perestam asked Mr. Conroy if he will grant a one time 90 day extension to
allow this application to be continued.
Mr. Conroy stated that he likes the idea of joining the two issues, as he felt it is crucial to
determine the location of the coastal setback line. He agreed that if he prevails in his
argument about the coastal setback line, no Variance application will be necessary. He
therefore granted the 90 day extension.
Director Rojas noted that the next available meeting is February 24, 2009.
Commissioner Ruttenberg moved to continue the public hearing to February 24,
2009 to allow staff to investigate additional allegations of non-permitted
construction and to present staff's interpretation decision on the location of the
coastal setback line at the same time as the variance request, seconded by
Commissioner Tomblin. Approved, (4-0).
5. Conditional Use Permit& Grading Permit (Case No. ZON2008-00530): 5504
Crestridge Road
Commissioner Tomblin disclosed that his wife is an active contributor to the Art Center,
however he did not feel that would affect his decision when hearing this item.
Senior Planner Schonborn presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the project
and the need for the applications. He stated that staff was able to make the necessary
findings for approval of the Conditional Use Permit as well as for the Grading Permit.
Therefore, staff was recommending approval of the application as conditioned in the
staff report.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 12
Commissioner Knight asked staff if the front of the property is on Crenshaw Blvd. or on
Crestridge Road, and if all of the required setbacks have been met.
Senior Planner Schonborn answered that the front of the property is located on
Crestridge Road, and the structures on the property are compliant with the necessary
setbacks.
Chairman Perestam opened the public hearing.
Director Rojas stated that there are no speakers, however the applicant is available to
answer any questions.
Chairman Perestam closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Knight moved to adopt P.C. Resolution 2008-53 thereby approving
the Conditional Use Permit and Grading Application as recommended by staff,
seconded by Commissioner Tetreault. Approved, (5-0).
. Conditional Use Permit Revision (Case No. ZON2008-00570)• 5801
Crestridge Road
Assistant Planner Kim presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the project and
the need for the Conditional Use Permit revision. She noted that the request is to raise
the height of the existing building by approximately 4 feet. She noted that the applicant
has requested a 6 inch height increase to the proposed 24 feet as a margin of error
during the construction phase of the project. She noted the appropriate changes have
been made to the Resolution. She stated that staff was able to make the necessary
findings to support the Conditional Use Permit revision and was recommending
approval as conditioned in the staff report.
Commissioner Knight asked what the intended purpose is of the proposed second story
balcony area.
Assistant Planner Kim answered that she did not know of any specific intent for this
area other than as an open area for residents to enjoy.
Commissioner Tomblin asked if the conversion of a studio unit to a one bedroom unit
would have any impact on the parking requirements.
Assistant Planner Kim answered that the conversion will not have an affect on the
parking requirements, explaining that parking is based on bed count and this change
does not affect the bed count.
Chairman Perestam opened the public hearing.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 13
Bruce MacPherson (architect for the project) explained that the primary purpose for this
project is to fix a potentially hazardous ramping condition at the first floor. In order to do
this and comply with the current handicap accessibility requirements, the new ramp will
have to be less steep than the existing ramp. In order to get that ramp in, the area
enclosing the ramp must be expanded out. He stated that this project is mainly a way to
get from one building to the next in a safe manner. He explained that the second story
roof deck is over the handicap accessible ramp on the ground floor, and is only intended
as an area for people to sit outside. He stated that all emergency exiting is remaining
as it currently exists.
Larry Ricketts (The Canterbury) explained The Canterbury has two separate projects
going on, one addressing the parking issues and the other dealing with safety issues.
He stated that he is available to answer any questions.
Commissioner Knight asked if there are other projects that will be before the Planning
Commission in the near future.
Mr. Ricketts answered that there are no immediate plans for other changes to the
facility.
Chairman Perestam closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Ruttenberg moved to adopt PC Resolution 2008-54 thereby
approving the requested Conditional Use Permit revision as recommended by
staff, seconded by Commissioner Knight. Approved, (5-0).
7. Conditional Use Permit, Variance, Grading Permit & Environmental
Assessment (Case No. ZON2008-00541): 31100-31176 Hawthorne Blvd
Senior Planner Schonborn presented the staff report. He began by briefly reviewing the
previous application that was before the Planning Commission for this project, which
was eventually withdrawn by the applicant. He explained that this application is a
modification of the original application. He explained the scope of the new project as
well as the parking, and showed pictures of the original and modified projects. He
stated that a new Mitigated Negative Declaration was prepared and circulated to the
appropriate agencies and notices were sent to the property owners within 500 feet of
the project. He explained that staff has determined the newly designed structure
addresses the view impact concerns that were raised at the previous meeting and that
staff was able to make the necessary findings for the Conditional Use Permit and
Variance. He noted a modification to the conditions of approval on page 45, condition
number 5(13) should read "to include general alcohol sales", not just beer and wine.
Also, on page 46, condition of approval 15 staff is suggesting that if the Commission
approves the project the condition should be modified to reflect that deliveries be
allowed between 5:00 a.m. to 7:30 a.m. and 9:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 14
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked staff if the suggested change in the hours of delivery
was done after communication with the applicant, and the applicant is agreeable to
those hours.
Senior Planner Schonborn answered that he had communication with a representative
from Trader Joe's and they were agreeable to these hours.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked staff to clarify the request included in the application to
keep the opening in the wall behind the veterinarian office.
Senior Planner Schonborn explained that the application continues to propose a gap in
the wall and consistent with staffs recommendation in May, staff continues to
recommend that gap not be allowed and it be made a solid wall.
Regarding the gap in the wall, Commissioner Knight recalled at the previous hearing
that many of the Commissioners felt a locked door arrangement would satisfy the
nearby residents as well as the needs for the veterinarian office. He asked why that
option was not discussed in the staff report.
Senior Planner Schonborn agreed there was such a discussion, however staff felt that
there was no clear direction given to staff, and therefore staff continued with its original
recommendation.
Commissioner Knight asked if staff would have any objections to a locked door
arrangement in the wall.
Senior Planner Schonborn did not foresee an issue with the locked door in the wall.
Commissioner Knight also recalled a discussion with the parking at Golden Cove and
how the parking lot is used utilized as a park-and-ride lot. He asked if that situation was
taken into consideration when doing the parking analysis.
Joanne Itagaki (City's Consulting Traffic Engineer) stated that she was not made aware
of that situation, however she felt that the parking analysis done by the applicant
accounts for vehicles parked in the lot all day.
Commissioner Knight asked if staff had any indication of how many cars use the lot for
park and ride.
Ms. Itagaki answered that she did not have any data on that.
Senior Planner Schonborn added that in staff's discussion with PV Transit, they
indicated that they have had up to two bus boardings at that location.
Commissioner Knight noted that during school hours cars will use the left turn lane on
Hawthorne Blvd. into Golden Cove as a U turn area. He asked the traffic engineer if
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 15
she felt any modifications were needed to that left turn lane to accommodate the
proposed project or existing conditions on Hawthorne Blvd.
Ms. Itagaki answered that she has not specifically looked at that situation as far as how
many cars utilize the left turn lane to make a U turn. She stated that the City's Public
Works Department is aware of the possible problems at this area and at Via Rivera and
that she will take note to look at the left turn lane and see if there is a need to expand
that lane.
Commissioner Tomblin asked Ms. Itagaki if there was any thought or recommendation
as to the need for designated employee parking in the back area so that the parking in
the main lot is as accessible as possible to the public.
Ms. Itagaki stated that she did not make any recommendations as to employee parking,
noting she only made the observation that there are employee parking spaces available.
Senior Planner Schonborn added that the Commission can impose conditions that
designate areas for employee parking. He also suggested leaving the parking as
proposed and monitor it during the review period and make appropriate
recommendations if needed.
Chairman Perestam stated that at the previous meeting there had been a discussion on
the ingress and egress onto and from Hawthorne Boulevard, noting the current plan
reflects the current situation at the site. He asked the traffic engineer if she had
reviewed this situation.
Ms. Itagaki answered that she did not specifically look at that. She reviewed the
number of additional right turns being made in relation to the project, noting it was only
six in the morning and eight in the afternoon. She also did not note any accidents in the
report that were in direct relation to the right turn. Therefore, she did not foresee this
ingress and egress as a problem, but will continue to monitor the area.
Chairman Perestam asked staff if they had any information regarding park-and-ride
from the Metro busses that go downtown.
Senior Planner Schonborn stated that staff was not able to get any information from
MTA.
Commissioner Knight noted on the plans an area that is currently used as handicap
parking and asked staff what it is proposed to be.
Senior Planner Schonborn answered that the area will be reconfigured to give a
pedestrian entry to the businesses that are along PV Drive West.
Commissioner Knight noted ATM's called out on the plans, and asked where they will
be located.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 16
Senior Planner Schonborn showed on the plans where it will be located.
Commissioner Knight questioned the safety of the location of the proposed ATM as far
as pedestrians and traffic.
Chairman Perestam opened the public hearing.
Hannibal Petrossi (applicant) briefly explained the reasons for the redesign. He also
explained that the originally submitted underground parking would not have been
economically feasible and would have caused a major disruption during construction to
the entire shopping center and school. Regarding parking, he explained there will be
limited parking times of two to three hours so that nobody could park their car for the
day, and this will be monitored. At the back of the building there will be designated
employee parking. The parking will be reconfigured, giving more spaces and better
circulation. Regarding the ATM parking, he noted that currently there are four
designated ATM parking spaces in the lot. He felt this new proposal will be safer and
more convenient. He pointed out the area of the proposed trash enclosures, noting that
they will be screened by landscaping.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked how many of the parking spaces will be designated for
compact cars.
Mr. Petrossi stated that approximately 17 percent of the spaces will be designated for
compact cars.
Chairman Perestam asked how the limited parking time was going to be enforced.
Mr. Petrossi answered that security will be monitoring the parking lot. He stated that
there is a legal procedure that must be followed before they are allowed to have any
cars towed.
Regarding the gap in the wall, Chairman Perestam asked if there has been any change
in that situation.
Mr. Petrossi explained that Golden Cove has had discussions with the veterinarian who
owns the adjacent vacant lot regarding the installation of a locked gate at the site.
Douglas Yokonizo (representing Trader Joe's) stated that he was available to answer
any questions from the Commission.
Commissioner Knight asked if he was in agreement with the delivery hours suggested
by staff.
Mr. Yokonizo answered that he was comfortable with the proposed delivery hours.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 17
Chairman Perestam asked if the proposed trash enclosures were adequate.
Mr. Yokonizo answered that the trash enclosures will be adequate.
John Safyurtu felt this proposal is an improvement over the last proposal, but did not
think it is enough. He explained that he has four basic problems with the proposal. He
felt the plan results in additional congestion; there is a danger from the way things are
set up; there is a substantial noise factor; and there is still a view impairment to his
parent's home. Regarding congestion, he noted that originally there were only 21 new
parking spots created and on this revision there are only 17 new parking spaces. He
questioned how this can be enough parking for a Trader Joe's. He also noted that the
traffic study was done during a time when the economy is in a recession and there may
not be as many people in the center as there might be after the economy picks back up.
He felt that there is a danger when pulling out of the parking lot onto Hawthorne
Boulevard. His noise issues were centered around the additional traffic as well as the
delivery trucks. Finally, regarding the views, he noted that he has still not seen any type
of explanation as to why Trader Joe's needs to exceed the existing building envelope.
He disagreed with staff's statement that this does not create a significant view impact
from his parent's home. He felt the view was being chipped away slowly by different
developments. He questioned why the mezzanine had to be used for a storage area
rather than using a basement area.
Commissioner Knight asked where the photographs he displayed were taken.
Mr. Safyurtu answered that they were taken from the middle of the backyard.
Commissioner Ruttenberg questioned why they were taken from the backyard and not
from the inside of the home where staff would do a view analysis from.
Mr. Safyurtlu explained these were taken from the patio area which, since the recent
remodel, has become the central hub of the home.
Mr. Yokonizo (in rebuttal) stated that no storage of products will occur in the mezzanine
and its use will be for mechanical equipment which would otherwise go on the roof. He
explained that this store will be comparable in size to the store in Torrance at the Rolling
Hills Plaza and the store on Western Avenue. He stated that because there are stores
on Western Avenue, in Torrance, and in Riviera Village, it is expected that this will be a
neighborhood store and is not expected to attract shoppers from out of the area. He
also explained that he has been working on this project for over two years and he is
very confident that the parking proposed will be adequate.
Commissioner Knight explained that in most shopping centers the carts are left all over
the parking lot by the shoppers. In order to help avoid that situation he questioned if it
would be possible to have cart inserts in the parking lot in place of one or two of the
planters.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 18
Mr. Yokonizo answered that anywhere they have the opportunity to put cart corrals they
will do so.
Commissioner Ruttenberg noted the store hours of 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. and asked
what Mr. Yokonizo would consider the peak hours.
Mr. Yokonizo explained that it is difficult to determine peak hours, as it varies from store
to store.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked staff if they have any photos taken from the residence
across the street showing the newly proposed project.
Senior Planner Schonborn answered that staff does not have photos, however he
showed a picture taken with the previous silhouette in place and showed where the new
silhouette would be located.
Chairman Perestam asked how many parking spaces would be created if the proposed
ATM in the parking lot was not built.
Senior Planner Schonborn felt that one and possibly two additional parking spaces
could be created.
Commissioner Knight felt the Golden Cove Center is a hub for park and ride and there
should be signage restricting the time allowed to park, as well as a way to enforce it.
He also felt there should be a six-month review for parking. He felt the construction
phasing should be reviewed by the building official and the traffic engineer. He also
suggested a condition of approval that a locked gate be constructed in the wall behind
the veterinarian's office.
Commissioner Knight moved to approve the Conditional Use Permit, Variance,
and Grading Permit as amended to require limited parking, a six-month parking
review, that the construction phasing plans be reviewed by the Building Official
and Traffic Engineer, and that a locked gate be constructed in the wall behind the
veterinarian's office, seconded by Commissioner Ruttenberg.
Commissioner Ruttenberg felt that substantial changes have been made to this project
since first reviewed by the Planning Commission. He explained that he was concerned
with the amount of parking, however after examining the traffic report it appears there is
quite a bit of leeway with regards to the peak hours. He felt that Commissioner Knight's
proposals to regulate the parking so that it is used only by center are important to make
sure there is adequate parking. With regard to the view issue, he understood the
neighbor's concerns about their view. However, when looking at the view from the
primary viewing area, he did not think the view impairment was significant. He was also
in favor of the locked gate to be constructed in the gap in the wall.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 19
Commissioner Tomblin was also sympathetic with the neighbor's view issues, but
agreed that the Planning Commission has specific rules on how to look at view
impairment, and in this case when viewing from the primary viewing area, the view loss
is not significant. He felt that the way the proposed building has been designed and
scaled down, that it will provide the least amount of impact to the neighbors. He stated
that he can make the necessary findings and supports the project.
Commissioner Tetreault stated that he was not as much concerned with parking with
this application as he has been with other applications that have been before the
Commission. He explained that many of his concerns were addressed when the City's
Traffic Engineer reviewed the parking. He was also not concerned that customers
would use the surrounding neighborhoods to park, as he basic topography and setup of
the area would make doing so very inconvenient. He also had to give credit to Trader
Joe's in that if they felt that there wasn't adequate parking for their patrons, this would
not be an attractive location for their store. He stated that he is not necessarily in favor
of the motion with the restrictions on parking, as he felt that this body may be imposing
more restrictions than necessary and that private enterprise can handle any parking
situations that may arise. However, he is not so opposed to the conditions of approval
to vote against the motion.
Chairman Perestam felt the parking situation is a greater unknown than it is being
viewed. He pointed out that there is no way to know how successful this shopping
center will be and the amount of traffic it will generate. He discussed the ATM and
requested the motion be amended to exclude the ATM. He pointed out that the existing
ATM is 75 feet away. He also noted that the ATM provides a visual obstruction when
driving through the parking lot. He did not think that the benefit of having another ATM
was greater than the benefit of having at least two additional parking spaces.
Chairman Perestam moved to amend the motion to add that the proposed ATM in
the parking lot be eliminated and to convert that area into as many added parking
spaces as possible.
Commissioner Tomblin asked if there is a lease provision in place that requires the
ATM, or is this a new addition.
Mr. Petrossi explained there is no lease agreement, however the bank has always
requested the addition of an ATM. He understood the concern with the visual
obstruction and would look into putting the ATM in another location.
Commissioner Knight noted that the plans show the ATM as being 12 feet in height. He
asked Mr. Petrossi if the height can be lowered.
Mr. Petrossi explained that it can be lowered, however he explained that at 12 feet the
ATM is visible from the other side of the parking lot. Lowering the height of the ATM
may require adding directional signage. He felt that he could lower the ATM by
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 20
approximately two feet, but pointed out that the obstruction noted by the Chairman
would be anything above five or six feet in height.
Chairman Perestam stated that the current bank may or may not always be a bank. He
also noted that there is accessibility to cash at Trader Joe's as well as 7-11. Therefore,
he felt that the parking and circulation obstruction at the proposed ATM site weighs
heavily on what the benefit the ATM will give to the shopping center.
Commissioner Knight moved to amend his motion to add that staff and the
applicant work together to try to find an alternate location for the ATM and
attempt to reduce the height and footprint of the ATM, seconded by
Commissioner Ruttenberg.
So that the Resolution does not have to come back to the Planning Commission, Senior
Planner Schonborn clarified the amendments to the conditions of approval. He began
with staff's amendment to condition number 5(B) which should read "to include general
alcohol sales", not just beer and wine. Also, on page 46, condition of approval 15 staff
is suggesting that if the Commission approves the project the condition should be
modified to reflect that deliveries be allowed between 5:00 a.m. to 7:30 a.m. and 9:00
p.m. to 11:00 p.m. Regarding the six-month review, he noted that condition No. 7 can
be modified to reflect the six-month review. Regarding the construction plans, staff can
impose a condition which reads "The construction phasing plans shall be submitted for
review and approval by the Building Official and Traffic Engineer prior to permit
issuance." For employee parking staff can add a condition which reads "The parking
stalls along the eastern property and to the rear of Building A shall be dedicated as
employee parking only."
Commissioner Knight was concerned that such a restriction may lead to empty spaces
that nobody can use because they are reserved for employees.
Commissioner Ruttenberg suggested no condition be added and to address it at the six-
month review.
Senior Planner Schonborn suggested a condition which read that the property owner
shall establish a parking program for the tenants in the Golden Cove Center whereby
employees shall be encouraged to park in designated areas.
Commissioner Knight was more comfortable with that language than the originally
suggested language.
Commissioner Tetreault noted that there is a six month review, and at that time the
parking will be reviewed. He felt that the Commission should not put any parking
restrictions into place until such time as it is determined there is a parking problem at
the Center. He questioned why the Commission would put parking restrictions in place
without knowing if there is a parking problem.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 21
Commissioner Knight indicated that the language recommended by staff should be
kept.
Senior Planner Schonborn continued with the conditions of approval, stating that a
condition will be added stating that signage shall be placed throughout the parking lot
consistent with applicable regulations of the California Vehicle Code, limiting parking to
four hours. Regarding the ATM, he suggested language to state "The ATM shall be
relocated to another location on the property subject to the review and approval by the
Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement and that the ATM shall be
reduced in height if possible."
Commissioner Ruttenberg was concerned with the suggested 4 hour parking limit. He
felt that the Commission may be trying to fine tune something that doesn't need to be
fixed. He noted that it is unknown how many cars use the center for park and ride
purposes and the Commission may be putting parking restrictions in place that aren't
needed.
Hannibal Petrossi stated that management will monitor the parking at the Center and
felt that a four hour parking restriction was reasonable. However, he explained that
there are leases signed with the various businesses and designated employee parking
is not included in the leases. He was more comfortable with marking the entire parking
lot for four hour parking and giving the employees a decal for the car identifying them as
employees, which would allow them to park longer than four hours.
Commissioner Knight suggested installing the four hour parking signs, but letting the
applicant monitor and enforce the parking at the site. The Planning Commission
agreed.
Director Rojas stated there will also be a condition of approval requiring a locked gate
be installed in the gap in the wall.
The motion to approve P.C. Resolution 2008-55 certifying the Mitigated Negative
Declaration and adopting P.C. Resolution 2008-56 approving the Conditional Use
Permit, Variance, and Grading Permit as amended, was approved (5-0).
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
8. Minutes of October 28, 2008
Commissioner Tomblin moved to approve the minutes as presented, seconded
y Commissioner Tetreault. Approved, (4-0-1) with Commissioner Ruttenberg
recusing himself from the minute of the Marymount item and Chairman Perestam
abstaining since he was absent from the meeting.
9. Minutes of October 30, 2008
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 22
Commissioner Knight moved to approve the minutes as presented, seconded by
Commissioner Ruttenberg. Approved, (5-0)
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
10. Pre-Agenda for the meeting on January 13, 2009
The pre-agenda was discussed and approved.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 12:10 a.m.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2008
Page 23