PC MINS 20080708 Ap roved
August 12, 008
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANING COMMIISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 8, 2008
CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Perestam at 7:08 p.m. at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Tomblin led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.
ROLL CALL
Present: Commissioners Gerstner, Ruttenberg, Tomblin, and Chairman Perestam.
Absent: Commissioners Knight, Tetreault, and Vice Chairman Lewis were
excused.
Also present were Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Rojas, Senior
Planner Schonborn, Associate Planner Fox, and Assistant Planner Kim.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The Planning Commission unanimously agreed to move Agenda Item No. 2 to be heard
after Agenda Item No. 5.
COMMUNICATIONS
Director Rojas distributed 13 items of correspondence and the City consultant's report
on the applicant's economic analysis for Agenda Item No. 1, as well as one item of
correspondence for Agenda Item No. 4.
Director Rojas noted that the appeal of the Planning Commission's decision on the view
case on Dianora Drive is scheduled to be heard by the City Council at the July 15, 2008
meeting.
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE (regarding non-agenda items)
None
CONTINUED BUSINESS
1. General Plan Amendment, Zone Change, Variance, Conditional Use Permit
Grading, and Environmental Assessment (Case No. ZON2008-00091): 28103
Hawthorne Blvd.
Senior Planner Schonborn presented the staff report, giving a brief overview of the
proposed project and the concerns expressed by staff and the Planning Commission at
the previous public hearing. He displayed drawings of the modified design, noting the
elements that have been incorporated into the design to create a building that is more in
keeping with the residential character of the immediate area. Therefore, staff feels that
concern has been addressed. He addressed the concern with the building height, and
explained that the applicant has lowered the overall height of the building by 1 Y2 feet at
the entrance. Further, the more prominent portion of the building located closest to the
intersection of Hawthorne Blvd. and Granvia Altimira has been reduced by 3 Y2 feet. He
stated that the Planning Commission had concerns with building location, and the
applicant has therefore pushed the building away from the corner to the extent that a
Variance will no longer be required. He stated that the applicant has submitted an
updated traffic report with actual traffic counts, and this report has been reviewed and
approved by the City's consulting traffic engineer. He stated another issue the Planning
Commission had was with the financial analysis presented by the applicant, and the
applicant has updated the economic analysis to include a residential project at the site.
He stated that this analysis has been reviewed by the City's economic consultant and
the consultant's comments have been distributed to the Planning Commission. He
reviewed the General Plan Amendments approved by the City, noting that the
amendments have been approved to allow for the existing use that was on the property.
He discussed the proposed car wash use on the property and that was approved by a
previous Planning Commission, but was overturned by the City Council. He noted that
details of this can be found in the staff report. He concluded by stating that staff is
recommending the Planning Commission review the design, close the public hearing,
formulate a recommendation to the City Council, and direct staff to prepare the
appropriate Resolution for adoption at a future meeting.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked staff what was meant by the term "pass by trips" that
is referenced in the traffic study.
Senior Planner Schonborn stated that was a result of a comment received from the City
of Rolling Hills Estates, and explained it is the number of trips that go to the subject
property on their way to another location as opposed to those that go to the subject
property as the primary destination.
Chad Hagel felt that his team has done a phenomenal job in gathering information and
responding to the concerns raised at the last meeting from the public and the Planning
Commission. He stated that actual traffic counts were obtained, additional analysis was
done on the feasibility and design for residential use at the property, a complete
redesign of the building elevations was done to incorporate residential characteristics,
and there is a revised building location and footprint. He reiterated what he brought up
in the last meeting, if CVS can get one thing, it would be to maintain the square footage
Planning Commission Minutes
July 8,2008
Page 2
that CVS requires to operate in a profitable manner, and in order to get this CVS is
willing to be extremely flexible in trying to achieve all of the other objectives put in front
of them. He stated that since the last meeting he has been trying to do additional
community outreach. He quickly outlined the various speakers that would be
representing the project this evening.
Commissioner Ruttenberg noted that he is insured through a very large carrier, and
recently was told that his medical prescriptions will be greatly reduced in price if he
orders on line. He felt this was soon to be the norm rather than the exception, and
asked Mr. Hagel if that has been taken into account when discussing the demand and
need for another pharmacy on the Peninsula.
Mr. Hagel stated that there will be a continuing trend towards these types of insurance
plans, however in looking at countries that are more socialized they still have a very
large predominance of retail pharmacies. He stated that the population in this country is
getting older and the demand will continue to rise, no matter what payment method is
applicable. He noted that CVS is very much aware of this and has recently acquired
Caremark, a health plan management organization, thereby ensuring themselves a very
large segment of the controlled reimbursement medical population and the
pharmaceutical sales that goes along with it.
Dr. Hannaeur (property owner) reiterated that she grew up in this area and is raising her
family here, and her family has the best intentions of the community in mind. She
discussed her family's history over the past 25 years in owning and operating gas
stations, and explained how the Valero station is now no longer profitable as there is not
the community need for the gas station at this location.
Steve Jordan stated that one of the comments from the last Planning Commission
meeting was to adjust the architecture to blend in with the neighborhood, and he
showed pictures of the original design and the modified design. He briefly described the
changes made to the design.
Grant Elliot stated he was responsible for doing a residential analysis for the site, which
included use of a civil engineer, a local residential broker, architect, and developer. He
explained that three lots could be created at this site, and showed a financial analysis
for building these lots. He explained that the analysis was done using the maximum lot
coverage allowed by Code on this site.
Commissioner Ruttenberg questioned many of the methodologies used how specific
conclusions were reached in the report.
Commissioner Gerstner also questioned some of the numbers and conclusions in the
report, noting that he did not think building three homes on this lot would necessarily be
in the red as suggested in the report.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 8,2008
Page 3
Mr. Elliot felt that the residential broker will be able to speak to these concerns better
than he can.
Jolene Merrill stated she is with Coldwell Banker and has been in the residential resale
market since 1977. She stated that in developing the figures presented she consulted
with two other brokers who have also been in the business for many years. She
explained the conclusion she reached was that it would be unwise to try to market
something on the subject property for more than 1.5 million dollars because of the lack
of neighborhood in the immediate neighborhood and the busy corner. She felt that the
property which most closely approximates the subject is on Peppertree Lane, at the
corner of Hawthorne Blvd. and Crest Road, and discussed the asking prices for homes
currently on the market in this and similar areas. She noted that the larger homes on
the busy corners have a selling price that reflects the location.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that it was odd to him that in a community with some of
the most expensive residences in Southern California there is a single piece of land that
somehow is not financially feasible as residential property, when all the other land in the
entire community is not only feasible but particularly profitable as residential. He asked
what was so unique about this piece of property that its one of the only pieces of
property in the entire City that is not financially feasible for residential use.
Ms. Merrill answered by describing the sale of a piece of a home that was on the market
for over a year, which she felt sold for under the current market value. She stated that
this is not the only piece of property on the peninsula that has some negative
characteristics for residential development. She explained that most developments are
built with more houses in them which then creates their own ambiance in the way of a
neighborhood, and that will be lacking on this lot.
Michael Gonzales and Lauren Wooding stated that the purpose of their presentation
was to demonstrate the benefit of the General Plan Amendment in comparison to the
site across the street that had a similar General Plan Amendment in 1988. He felt that
with the General Plan Amendment there will be more control over the site and how it will
be developed. He noted that the office building across the street is approximately 38
feet in height as compared to the proposed 16 foot high CVS pharmacy. He displayed
a chart that displayed a project comparison of the proposed CVS pharmacy versus the
non-conforming office building across the street. He stated that this General Plan
Amendment will regulate the use of the property and allow the City to regulate the
proposed structure on the property. He noted that staff supports the General Plan
Amendment, explaining it is internally consistent with the General Plan and it is
internally consistent with the site that has been used for commercial purposes for 37
years. He stated that the site is suitable for the proposed use and is well situated to
accommodate the use that is being proposed.
Commissioner Tomblin asked about the exterior lighting of the parking lot and property.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 8,2008
Page 4
Ms. Wooding answered that after speaking to the neighbors about lighting, the architect
has been working on a site layout and photometrics. She stated that they will accept
any conditions of approval imposed by the City regarding lighting.
Commissioner Tomblin stated that there was a comment from the neighbors regarding
the wall height on the back side, and asked if that was addressed.
Ms. Wooding explained that they are looking at a 6-foot tall wall along the north and
west perimeter, which is in compliance with code requirements.
Robert Khan (traffic consultant) stated that his firm has been involved in traffic and
transportation impact studies throughout Southern California and has prepared
hundreds of studies, and has done a number of studies for pharmacy uses. He
explained that his company has been retained to prepare the trip generation studies
with the primary purpose to determine if there will be a significant change in the traffic
generated by this particular use. He further explained that his study was prepared
based upon the ITE Trip Generation Manual, which is the main document used for
generating traffic for various land uses, and is used by many cities and municipalities
throughout Southern California and is recognized by traffic engineers as the main
document for determining the traffic during morning, afternoon, and daily trips. He
addressed the term "pass by trips" by explaining that a portion of trips going to a specific
use would be coming directly from an adjacent roadway and that these were not a
specific trip to that use, as these trips were already on the highway. He stated that the
reason pass by trips are considered is that the actual impacts to the intersections and
roadway segments are affected by the additional trips that occur because of a particular
land use. He discussed the trip generation analysis that was prepared, and noted that
results indicate that the proposed CVS pharmacy will actually generate less net a.m.
and p.m. trips than the previous use. He stated that, based on comparing both the
gross trip generations and the net trip generations, it is his conclusion that this proposed
used will not significantly change the amount of traffic generated by the current use on
the property.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked Mr. Khan how many trip generations the ITE Trip
Generation Manual would list for a convenience store or market that is not primarily a
pharmacy.
Mr. Khan answered that the trips for that type of use would be substantially more than
the pharmacy classification.
Steve Kuykendall stated that he has not found anyone how would like to use the subject
property for residential use, noting that it has been a commercial site since the property
was first developed. He felt the property is a poor location for residential housing, has
poor ingress and egress, and there would be a high cost to develop the lot for
residential use. He explained that there could only be one point of ingress and egress
on the property to serve three single family residences, which is a very difficult sales
scenario when talking about high priced housing.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 8,2008
Page 5
Connie Semos, 6512 Monero Drive, thanked Mr. Hagel and his associates for their
redesign of the building in an effort to accommodate to the plan. She felt the new
design is an improvement with respect to the visual character of the site, it does not
enhance the surrounding area, which is residential. She felt that any commercial
building of that magnitude has a negative impact on the aesthetics, namely the civic
vista that is witnessed from that corner. She noted that there are already pharmacies
and convenience stores in the immediate area, and that if CVS vacates the premises in
the next 25 years they can sublet the property. She questioned what could then be put
on the property. She felt that changing the zoning on the property to CL will be contrary
to one of the reasons the City incorporated, which was to limit commercial development.
She did not think that rezoning the property to CL was in the public's interest.
David Hsu, 6409 Rio Linda Drive, stated that one of the reasons he has lived in this City
for so long is because he loves the non-commercial characteristic of the community. He
therefore objected to the proposed zone change on the property. He didn't think the
zoning should be changed just because a property owner would like to make money.
He questioned whether the traffic count took into account the bottleneck that occurs on
Granvia Altimira every morning with all of the delivery trucks that are parked out on that
street.
Kathy Tyndall stated that she has been a real estate agent on the Peninsula for 25
years and has sold many houses in the neighborhood adjacent to the subject property.
She stated that having the Valero gas station and the 7-11 is a tremendous detriment to
the Los Verdes community and questioned why they would want something that will be
three times as big. She felt that building the CVS pharmacy will cause the property
values to decline in the immediate neighborhood, and therefore the property taxes will
also decline.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked Ms. Tyndall what she would like to see built on the
property.
Ms. Tyndall answered that she could envision four single family residences built on the
property, noting that there are many residential lots on Hawthorne Blvd. She also
suggested a small office building or even a smaller building for the CVS pharmacy, as
she felt the current proposal is much too big for the lot.
Larry Barlock, 28070 Santona Drive, which is directly adjacent to the proposed CVS
pharmacy. He stated that he and his wife fully support the proposed project. He noted
that all the landowner and contractor have made all of the changes and modifications
requested by the Planning Commission and staff, and are open to other changes if
needed. He felt the current design is a significant move forward, as it has a residential
character to it. He also felt that the pharmacy meets the needs of a growing senior
community. He was worried that maintaining the current zoning will result in a vacant
lot surrounded by a chain link fence.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 8,2008
Page 6
Lindley Ruddick, 28042 Acana Road, asked the Planning Commission to deny the
requested zone change to accommodate the proposed project. He felt the proposed
project was not a pharmacy, but rather a convenience store with a small portion of the
store devoted to pharmaceuticals. He also felt the proposed project was far too large
for both the neighborhood and the lot. He disagreed with staffs opinion that the waiver
of the setback from residential property adjacent to the lot is mitigated by a slope and
hard surface walls. He felt this will result in the appearance of a large box surrounded
on two sides by a fortress-like wall, hardly in keeping with a residential neighborhood.
However, if the Planning Commission feels the project has merit and approves the zone
change, he asked that the revised project be denied until such time that is significantly
reduced in size with no requested variances.
Eileen Waters stated that this lot is within walking distance of five other drug stores, and
she did not feel that another pharmacy was needed. She felt that the convenience store
side of the project will be more lucrative than the pharmacy. She envisioned the store
frequented by teens buying sodas after school and pocketing merchandise. She asked
why the City needs one more place where the teens can learn to be dishonest. She
also felt the store will be a local haven for gardeners and other hired workers. She felt
the location would be better served as a mini-park with trees and plenty of seating.
Linda Herman 28070 Ella Road explained that she is a resident who signed the petition
against the proposed project, however after attending a neighborhood meeting and
learning more about the project, she now supports the project. She was concerned,
however, that should the future use of the property not be viable, there should be some
way of controlling what eventually happens at the property.
Rustine Eshfiani stated he is a resident of Palos Verdes Estates and supports the
proposed project. He felt that it will be more pleasing to see the newly designed
building versus a gas station or a vacant lot.
Faye Eshfiani stated she one hundred percent supports the project and will be very
happy to use the convenience store and the local CVS pharmacy. She stated that she
is currently very unhappy with the other pharmacies on the peninsula.
Marvam Pourmohsen stated she was also speaking for her husband, and wanted to
express their support for the proposed project. She felt it would be very convenient to
have a CVS on the hill and will be much more aesthetically pleasing than the current
gas station.
Parven Meadows explained that she too is a realtor and would not take a listing of a
single family residence at that location because it is not sellable. She felt that the
proposed pharmacy will be very convenient for the residents in the community and was
in support of the project.
Sherry Hope stated that she is in support of the proposed project.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 8,2008
Page 7
Nima Vinny 30165 Cartier Drive expressed his support of the project. He felt that the
proposed building was much more pleasant to look at than the current gas station. He
also did not think it was practical to develop the lot for residential use.
Sylvia Rampino 6948 Verde Ridge Road, stated her main concern was the
contaminated soil, and was pleased that CVS was willing to pay for soil clean up on the
property. She felt this was a perfect location for the CVS pharmacy, and did not think it
was a good location for residential homes. She stated that she was in favor of the
project.
Nazi Esfahani stated she is in favor of the proposed CVS pharmacy. She stated that
CVS is one of the largest pharmacies in the country and are included in all insurance
plans, including Medicare and Medi Cal. She did not think this would be a profitable lot
to build residential homes on and was in favor of the pharmacy.
Shahine Arabi stated that she is in favor of the CVS pharmacy, noting that the
population is increasing and the population is aging.
Parvin Azad 30615 Cartier Drive stated that she is very much in favor of CVS
pharmacy, stating that she has had quite a bit of trouble with the other pharmacies on
the peninsula.
Maritza Monheiser expressed her support of the CVS pharmacy.
Vivian Gallup 4 Oceancrest Court stated she is in support of the CVS pharmacy. She
stated that Ralphs and Vons both have pharmacies, however they maintain a very small
stock.
Fred Lavi 28335 Ridgefalls Court stated that he is in favor of the CVS pharmacy. He
explained that he is a commercial real estate broker and felt that if the property were to
be developed for residential use, it may only be worth $1 million, however if developed
for commercial use the property could be worth as much as $5 million. He also noted
that even if a residential development were viable, three houses on the lot would total
more square footage than the entire pharmacy and would be two-story structures rather
than the single story CVS pharmacy.
Bahram Aarabi 5146 Kingspine Road stated he is in favor of the pharmacy.
Resident felt that aesthetically the pharmacy will look much better than the gas station.
He understood the local neighbor concerns, however he pointed out that all residents
use this area. He felt that the pharmacy will add a convenience to the residents of Los
Verdes, as well as to residents in other areas of Rancho Palos Verdes and Palos
Verdes Estates. He felt that the CVS pharmacy will do a greater good to the community
than the gas station or a residential development.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 8,2008
Page 8
Stuart Freedland 28237 Lobrook felt the traffic is being grossly under estimated,
especially in the afternoon. He understood the owners predicament that they couldn't
sell enough gas to stay in business, but noted that he buys his gas elsewhere because
the price of the gas at Vallero is so high. He stated that the nature of this community is
that there is a town center with numbers of other pharmacies, and he would hate to see
the nature of this community deteriorate for convenience sake.
Anajida Perestat stated that the reality is the gas station will be closing, and she was in
favor of the CVS pharmacy as the best use for the land. She felt that stalling any type
of development would only lead to loitering and increased crime in the area. She noted
that the City will benefit tax-wise from the income of the CVS pharmacy.
Bruce Azad felt that the concerns of the neighborhood, while very important, have been
taken into account. He felt that the CVS pharmacy and the Planning Commission are
doing all they can to balance the needs of the neighborhood with the needs of the
community at large. He stated he is very much in favor of the CVS pharmacy.
Patricia Parker asked if the Planning Commissioners could envision a CVS pharmacy in
a residential neighborhood in Palos Verdes Estates. She couldn't. She felt this City
was organized to protect the residents from commercial sprawl, which is what she felt
this was. She didn't think the City needed another pharmacy. She stated that in Palos
Verdes Estates there are many pocket parks, and this lot would be a good location for a
pocket park.
Bob Astiani stated that he is fully in support of the CVS pharmacy.
Viorel Bucur 28068 Santona Drive, which is right below the gas station and is right next
to Hawthorne Boulevard. He stated that he has listened to every talk about how this
property can not be profitable as residential, but he disagreed. He felt that the Planning
Commission should consider the value of the property and what it is really worth. He
noted that his property was appraised three years ago for $1.4 million.
Chad Hagel (in rebuttal) felt that by injecting its own view points on the necessity of
particular business uses on this property, the City put itself in a precarious situation. He
stated that it leaves the City in a situation, where as the market changes, the City is
forced to respond to that rather than have a flexible zoning that's on the property that
allows the property to respond to the changes in the market naturally. In retrospect, he
didn't understand why such a restrictive zoning was placed on this property, as it was
already in use as a commercial use, to be down-zoned to residential but with an overlay
placed on top of it to make it viable as a gas station only. He stated that economics in
the world are changing, and at the time the gas station was probably very important, but
today it is no longer viable or necessary. He stated experts have testified that the new
use will not have as much traffic as the current use. He cautioned that it is important
not to confuse traffic counts at the intersection with trip generation of the use. He stated
that this side of the intersection is designed for commercial use, and this lot is almost a
mirror image of the lot across the street that contains 7-11. He stated that the building
Planning Commission Minutes
July 8,2008
Page 9
being proposed fits the character and the nature of the intersection, noting it will be the
smaller, less dense, and shorter of the two sister properties.
Commissioner Tomblin asked Mr. Hagel what his position would be if no signage were
allowed on the side of the building and only monument signage were allowed.
Mr. Hagel explained that this project was approved by the CVS real estate committee
with signage in two location, over the entryway and at the corner when the corner
element previously existed. He showed several pictures and rendering which depicted
where the currently proposed signage was to be located. He felt that he could present
to CVS any suggestions by the City. He stated that there is a great opportunity to
create some features at the corner that would be neighborhood friendly and create an
inviting corner. He suggested a curved, seat wall at the corner with signage on the wall.
He stated that the signage that would cause a problem to eliminate would be the
signage over the entry door.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked if there were any indication that the soils is any more
contaminated than from the usual use of a property with a gas station on it.
Mr. Hagel answered that there is no indication that the clean-up of the property would
be any different than the average gas station.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked Mr. Hagel if any type of study was done on a multi-
family type of use for the property.
Mr. Hagel answered that in theory there could be a multi-family development on the
property, however all of the challenges he has faced and addressed in the design and
implementation of the CVS facility will be faced by any developer who is developing a
multi-tenant residential property. He questioned how the size could be reduced to 16
feet versus current grade and how the project could be viable and still stay out of the
setbacks. He felt the design, engineering, and traffic impacts would be insurmountable.
He also noted that there is no application on the table, nor has there been one, from a
developer who wants to buy this property and rezone it to multi-tenant residential.
Further, the current applicant has approach Planning staff in the past regarding multi-
tenant residential and was given several reasons why this was not desirable and would
most likely not be supported by staff.
Chairman Perestam asked staff if, in the recent past, there have been any inquiries or
discussions regarding a fourth unit on the property.
Senior Planner Schonborn stated that there have been no applications submitted to the
City for this type of use on the property. He explained that when looking at the site
there are some initial concerns with the height of the building and view issues.
Director Rojas added that in meetings with the applicant he has conveyed some of the
reaction and opposition the City is seeing regarding the multi-family projects in Rolling
Planning Commission Minutes
July 8,2008
Page 10
Hills Estates and also with the multi-family project being proposed in this City. He also
noted that the City's consultant looked at a multi-family scenario and determined that
there would need to be 8 to 22 units on the property to make it work. He explained that
raises a question of how to fit that many units on this property.
Director Rojas reminded the Planning Commission that their role in this application is
advisory, as they are making a recommendation to the City Council as to the approval
or denial of the requested General Plan Amendment. He also noted that if the Planning
Commission decides to continue the public hearing to hear more public testimony or
request additional information from staff, the public hearing will have to be continued to
August 26th rather than July 22nd, as suggested in the staff report.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked staff what control the City has over what is allowed on
the property if the pharmacy use fails and CVS leaves the site.
Director Rojas answered that if the existing use goes away, the Code allows certain
uses by right in a commercial zone and that certain other uses require a Conditional use
Permit and public hearings. He read from the Code the allowed by right uses in a CL
zone.
Commissioner Gerstner complimented the applicants on the changes and compromises
made in the proposed design of the structure. That being said, he explained that
Rancho Palos Verdes is considered a residential community, which means its residents
are willing to drive further for services and the commercial areas tend to be localized.
He felt that this proposal is not a permit for CVS, but a request to change the zoning on
a piece of property to commercial. He noted that the property across the street is also
commercial, which will then create somewhat of a commercial center at this
intersection. He felt that if this use is viable, the traffic and trips at the intersection will
increase, and will be somewhat more than what the applicant has projected. He also
felt that traffic and trips will increase if the center across the street is upgraded. He felt
that taking the trips to the CVS combined with a more viable use of the property across
the street, this will start to push on the character of that corner. He did not think this
would contribute to the semi-rural character of the community, and was therefore not
inclined to recommend at this time a zone change for the property to the City Council.
He explained that he was trying to look at the long term of the two commercial
properties, not necessarily being a 7-11 and a CVS pharmacy, but possibly one of the
other acceptable uses.
Commissioner Ruttenberg explained that his primary focus has been on the request for
a zone change, and the burden on the applicant is quite heavy since this would entail a
change to the General Plan. He stated that even though staff has stated that
economics should not be considered when making a decision, he felt that in this case
where the City is being asked to make a change in the zoning to commercial use, it is
important to consider whether or not the gas station is a still a viable use for the
property, and if so, he did not feel there would be support for a zone change. He felt
that sufficient information has now been presented to show that this site is no longer
Planning Commission Minutes
July 8,2008
Page 11
viable as a gas station. As to whether or not it would be viable as a residential lot, again
he felt that enough information had now been presented that he did not think the
property was viable as a residential lot. He stated that if the property is not viable as a
gas station and not viable as residential, then the City should not deny an application to
change the General Plan. He also noted that if the property is not viable as a gas
station or residential, and the City denied a commercial zone change, it would create a
situation where effectively the City is taking the property. Regarding the actual project,
the question of the setbacks has been solved and the size of the building fits on to the
size of the lot. He was not convinced that the traffic studies presented are exactly
accurate, but did not think this was enough to recommend denial of the project.
Therefore, he stated that he was in favor of the proposed project.
Commissioner Tomblin stated that the change in use of land very much affects the
quality of life in the area. He explained that he has observed a local CVS and watched
the traffic and the people coming in and out, and does not want to see that kind of use
in this mostly residential area. He stated that a very large number of comments he has
received tend to agree. He stated that this property was zoned residential with a one-
time gas station overlay placed on it. He wished that the City had more time to discuss
what other type of residential uses were viable for this property. Therefore, based on
not seeing all of the options of what could happen on this lot and based on the
comments he has received from residents of the City, he cannot support the change of
use on the property.
Chairman Perestam agreed with Mr. Hagel that if the zone change was to be approved,
the actual details of the CVS pharmacy can be worked out. He stated that he is more
comfortable, but not fully accepting, of the traffic study done for the intersection. He felt
that this zone change request is tied directly to the current economics, noting that when
the housing market improves the viability of developing this lot as residential might also
improve. Therefore, he is very much undecided in regards to the requested zone
change for the property. He was sorry that the other Commissioners were not present
to express their opinions on the zone change. He therefore was going to vote in
support of the project so that it goes to the City Council with a 2-2 vote from the
Planning Commission.
Director Rojas explained that to give staff direction to bring back the Resolution to either
support or deny the project, there needs to be an affirmative vote by the Planning
Commission. He also noted that any Commissioner not at this meeting can watch the
video of the meeting and participate in the next hearing. Therefore, even if there is a 3-
1 position tonight to support the project, if the absent Commissioners watch the tape
and come to the next meeting with a different viewpoint, that could change the decision
provided the public hearing is not closed, since the formal decision is made through the
adoption of a Resolution.
Commissioner Ruttenberg moved that the Planning Commission recommend to
the City Council that the Planning Commission is equally divided 2-2 with regards
to whether or not to approve this proposed project for the reasons expressed by
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July 8,2008
Page 12
each of the four Commissioners present, and ask the City Council to make its
decision after considering the comments of the Commissioners, seconded by
Commissioner Gerstner.
Commissioner Gerstner felt that if the absent Commissioners are at the next meeting
they will most likely ask to take the item off of the Consent Calendar and express their
opinions on this project. He questioned why the Planning Commission would again
continue this matter and delay sending the project to the City Council, who will
ultimately make the decision. He stated that this project is going to the City Council with
all of the same commentary, opinions, and speakers.
Director Rojas questioned the motion as it gave no direction and staff needs direction to
draft a resolution that summaries the Commission's decision. He explained that staff
was expecting a vote of approval or denial and to return with the appropriate Resolution
on the Consent Calendar for the next meeting. He questioned whether the Commission
really wished to let the City council know that it could not make a decision on the matter.
Chad Hagel stated that this is a very important decision, and questioned if procedurally
the Planning Commission can send a neutral recommendation to the City Council. He
also felt that the Planning Commission was letting a set of outside circumstances,
namely time, dictate a decision on a very important issue. He asked if there was any
means by which the agenda for the July 22nd Planning Commission can be changed to
allow this to be a fully opened public hearing discussion at that meeting.
Chairman Perestam stated that his vote is definitely not "neutral" regarding this project,
and Commissioner Gerstner agreed, noting his opinions had clearly been expressed.
Chairman Perestam explained that the Agenda for the next meeting is quite full, in that
St. John Fisher is scheduled for that meeting and that this item just can't be continued
to the next meeting.
Mr. Hagel requested a few minutes so that he and the owners could step outside to
discuss some matters relating to the application and the possible continuance.
Chairman Perestam granted Mr. Hagel the time and stated the Planning Commission
would continue on with the Agenda and return to this item when the applicant was
ready.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
4. Height Variation & Grading Permit (Case No. ZON2006-00643): 16
Rockinghorse Road
Commissioner Gerstner moved to continue the public hearing to July 22, 2008,
seconded by Commissioner Ruttenberg. The motion was unanimously approved.
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July 8,2008
Page 13
CONTINUED BUSINESS (cont)
5. Height Variation Permit, Site Plan Review & Grading Permit (Case No.
ZON2007-00536): 5501 Shoreview Drive
Assistant Planner Kim presented a brief staff report explaining the changes made in the
project since the last public hearing. She showed a photograph taken from the
neighbor's home with the original silhouette and the revised silhouette.
Chairman Perestam asked if the silhouette at the site reflects the changes made to the
plans.
Assistant Planner Kim answered that the silhouette reflects the current plan.
Chairman Perestam opened the public hearing.
Gregg Ferguson (applicant) explained that he would like to install solar panels on the
roof of his home, and the average ideal angle for a south facing roof is an 8:12 pitch
roof, which is steeper than seen in the City today. He explained that they chose a gable
style roof and situated it so that public views would be of the side of the roof so the roof
angle would not be apparent. However, based on Commissioner comments at the
previous meeting he has reduced the roof angle and lowered the height. He stated that
there are 5 other two-story homes on Shoreview Drive and discussed the other two-
story homes on other nearby streets. He felt that because of the way his lot is situated,
it is probably the most advantageous lot on Shoreview Drive for a two-story home. He
showed several pictures from different locations of the silhouette on his property.
Russ Barto (architect) stated that at the previous meeting the Planning Commission
expressed concern with the height of the proposed house and that the size of the
house, though it is large, was not as much of an issue since a substantial portion of the
house will be below grade and will not contributed to the visible bulk. Therefore, by a
combination of lowering the floor to floor height and reducing the roof slope, the house
was lowered by three feet.
Robert Gibson 26727 Basswood Avenue stated that only the Littlebow HOA was
notified and not the Basswood HOA, which is directly adjacent to the proposed project.
He disagreed with staffs determination that the proposed house will be compatible with
the immediate neighborhood character. He questioned how a structure that is the
largest in the neighborhood and the first two-story structure in the neighborhood can be
considered compatible. He also spoke for Daniel Colburn, who lives on Basswood
Drive. He stated that Mr. Colburn was concerned with the hillside and the excavation of
the basement.
Chairman Perestam closed the public hearing.
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July 8,2008
Page 14
Commissioner Tomblin moved to accept staff's recommendation to approve the
proposed project as conditioned, seconded by Commissioner Ruttenberg.
Chairman Perestam asked if the new Resolution incorporates the conditions from the
last submittal.
Assistant Planner Kim answered that the new Resolution has not changed except for
the discussion of the height of the project and the neighborhood compatibility analysis.
Chairman Perestam asked staff if the Basswood HOA had been notified.
Assistant Planner Kim explained that the Planning Department has a list of
Homeowners Associations and the contacts, which is updated through notifications from
the various HOAs. She stated that the City has no record of a Basswood HOA.
The motion to adopt P.C. Resolution 2008-25 approving the Height Variation,
Grading, and Site Plan Review as conditioned by staff was adopted, (3-1) with
Commissioner Gerstner dissenting.
1. General Plan Amendment, Zone Change, Variance, Conditional Use Permit,
Grading, and Environmental Assessment (Case No. ZON2008-00091): 28103
Hawthorne Blvd. (continued)
Director Rojas read from the Planning Commission rules which state that any tie vote
shall constitute a denial of the motion. He explained that if the commission doesn't
continue the item and the matter ends up in a tie vote, staff would then forward this
application to the City Council with no Resolution and an explanation that the Planning
Commission was unable to take any action because of a tie vote. He noted that by
doing this, there is a possibility that the City Council may remand the item back to the
Planning Commission to get a full Commission vote on the item.
Michael Gonzales (representing the owner) requested the Planning Commission
continue the public hearing to the August 26th meeting, rather than forward the item to
the City Council with a recommendation of no decision. He also requested some
guidance from the Planning Commission on outstanding issues that are of concern so
that they may address these items at the next meeting.
Commissioner Gerstner did not object to a continuance, however he stated that he has
heard quite a bit of information on the project and did not know what he could offer to
the applicant as far as guidance, as he felt this is a land use issue and he did think that
the intersection was well suited as a commercial center.
Commissioner Ruttenberg withdrew his motion.
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July 8,2008
Page 15
Commissioner Tomblin moved to continue the public hearing to the Planning
Commission of August 26, 2008, seconded by Commissioner Ruttenberg.
Approved, (4-0).
2. Residential Development Standards Code Amendment & Zone Change
(Case No. ZON2007-00377)
Commissioner Gerstner moved to continue the public hearing to July 22, 2008,
seconded by Commissioner Ruttenberg. Approved, (4-0)
3. Green Building Program
Commissioner Gerstner moved to continue the item to the August 26, 2008
meeting, seconded by Commissioner Ruttenberg. Approved, (4-0).
NEW BUSINESS
6. Possible reduction in size of the Planning Commission
Commissioner Gerstner moved to continue the item to the July 22, 2008 Planning
Commission meeting, seconded by Commissioner Tomblin. Approved, (4-0).
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
7. Minutes of May 27, 2008
Continued to the July 22, 2008 meeting.
8. Minutes of June 10, 2008
Continued to the July 22, 2008 meeting.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
9. Pre-Agenda for the meeting of July 22, 2008
No action taken.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 12:21 a.m.
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July 8,2008
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