PC MINS 20070925 Approved
November 107
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANING COMMIISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
SEPTEMBER 25, 2007
CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order by Vice Chairman Perestam at 7:05 p.m. at the Fred
Hesse Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Tetreault led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.
ATTENDANCE
Present: Commissioners Karp, Knight, Lewis, Ruttenberg, Tetreault, and Vice
Chairman Perestam.
Absent: Chairman Gerstner was excused.
Also present were Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Rojas, Senior
Planner Alvarez, and Assistant Planner Kim.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The agenda was unanimously approved as presented.
COMMUNICATIONS
Director Rojas distributed four items of correspondence for Agenda Item No. 3. He also
reported that at their last meeting, the City Council adopted the Ordinance relating to
minor miscellaneous Code Amendments that were reviewed by the Planning
Commission. He also noted that the Planning Commission decision relating to the
project on Seacove Drive has been appealed to the City Council.
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE (regarding non-agenda items)
None
CONTINUED BUSINESS
1. View Restoration Permit (ZON2007-00019): 5335 Rolling Ridge Road
Senior Planner Alvarez presented the staff report, explaining that staff is recommending
continuance of the item to October 23, 2007 in order to allow the foliage owner time to
obtain core boring samples in order to accurately project the age of the trees in
question.
Director Rojas polled the Commissioners as to who had not visited the foliage owner's
property. Vice Chairman Perestam stated that he had not been to the site and therefore
could not participate in the discussions regarding this item. He left the dais and
Commission Knight acted as Chairman for this item.
Commissioner Knight opened the public hearing.
Dr. Ralph Allman (applicant) stated that he has given evidence that the trees in question
were planted in 1957 and the question at hand is whether or not the trees were view
impairing when the lot was created. He stated that property owners have attested to the
trees not being in the view, and that aerial photo experts have determined that that tree
heights cannot be ascertained by the UCLA aerial photo. He displayed topography
maps which he felt showed that the trees could not have grown enough to be view
impairing by the time the lot was created in 1965. In addition, he explained that topo
maps contain elevation measurements at the point where tree Nos. 1 and 2 are planted.
He stated that the elevation of tree No. 1 is approximately 66 feet in elevation and the
lot where the view is taken is 86 feet. Therefore, he felt that the tree would have to
grow twenty feet to become view impairing. He stated that the city arborist felt the tree
would grow approximately 2 feet per year, which would have been an 18 foot tree and
even at 3 feet per year the tree would have been 24 feet in height. For tree No. 2, he
stated it is planted at 66 feet and the driveway is at 89 feet. He felt that at 23 feet the
tree would be at a level of the driveway elevation.
Commissioner Lewis asked Dr. Allman if he opposed the request for continuance of the
public hearing.
Dr. Allman responded that he would rather have a decision this evening, but was willing
to wait until October 23rd if that was what the Planning Commission felt they needed to
be satisfied with their decision.
Doug Trowbridge (foliage owner) explained his only hope of keeping his trees was by
showing that they were view impairing trees when the lot was created in 1965, and
appreciated the Planning Commission's patience in granting extra time. He added that
he felt the Planning Commission was given inaccurate information as to the date the
trees were planted. He thought that Helen Graux planted the trees and not Mr. Walker
because she stated she did. Moreover, her property contains trees that are at similar
heights, and a 1956 aerial photo shows trees that are not mere saplings.
Dr. Allman (in rebuttal) distributed an aerial photograph to the Planning Commissioners
which he stated was taken in 1956. He noted that there are trees shown on Rolling
Ridge Road and Via Campesina, but no trees are found on the subject lot. He also
stated that a letter from Mr. Poxon corroborates the 1957 planting date.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 25,2007
Page 2
Commissioner Knight closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Knight stated he was unclear how the tree Nos. 1 and 2 were situated on
the slope in relation to the pad elevation heights and how these trees could be view
impairing trees in 1965, given the city arborists' estimated growth rate of these trees.
Senior Planner Alvarez explained that the City Arborist has examined these trees and it
appears these trees have the characteristics of fast growing trees, meaning they could
have grown three feet per year or more., He also noted that staff may disagree with the
elevations presented by Dr. Allman, explaining that the map presented does not show
on the elevation contours where trees Nos. 1 and 2 are located.
Commissioner Knight stated that he would like to have a clear picture of the height
elevations and growth rates of the trees prior to the next meeting.
Commissioner Ruttenberg stated that it would be helpful if the City Arborist were
available to attend the October 23rd meeting.
Commissioner Lewis moved to continue the public hearing to October 23, 2007,
seconded by Commissioner Tetreault. Approved, (5-0-1) with Vice Chairman
Perestam recused.
2. General Plan Amendment, Zone Change, Height Variation, & Site Plan
Review(ZON2007-00134): 3324 Seaclaire Drive
Vice Chairman Perestam returned to the dais.
Assistant Planner Kim presented the staff report, giving a brief history and scope of the
project. She explained that staff was able to make the necessary findings and was
recommending approval of the project as conditioned in the staff report.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked staff if they had heard any objections from the
neighbor on Eaglehaven Court since the proposed project has been re-silhouetted.
Assistant Planner Kim answered that she has received no objections from the neighbors
regarding this project.
Vice Chairman Perestam opened the public hearing.
Lisa Vavic 3324 Seaclaire Drive (applicant) stated she was available to answer any
questions.
Joanne Antall 31316 Eaglehaven Circle stated that the question is what is the definition
of"significant" and if"significant" should be considered in the eyes of the beholder.
Planning commission Minutes
September 25,2007
Page 3
Commissioner Lewis asked Ms. Antall if the photograph displayed by staff was an
accurate depiction of the view from her property.
Ms. Antall answered that she was with staff when the picture was taken and it is an
accurate representation of her view.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked Ms. Antall what she considered significant view
impairment.
Ms. Antall explained that she appreciated the Vavic lowered their proposed addition,
however was still surprised at how tall the addition appears. She explained that her
main viewing area is out over the Vavic home and was concerned about what will
happen with the next proposed project and the one after that. She questioned when the
impairment becomes significant not only for her but for other homeowners in the
neighborhood.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked Ms. Antall if she had a greater concern about others
building a two-story home than if this were the only one.
Mrs. Antall answered that she had concerns that this is going to start a trend, noting that
families that move into the neighborhood will want larger homes that will go up.
Ed Gulian (architect) stated he has been working very closely with staff to make sure he
was designing a home that is compatible with the neighborhood and has tried very hard
to design something that made all of the neighbors happy.
Lisa Vavic, (in rebuttal) also emphasized that she has worked very hard with her
neighbors to design a home that has the least amount of impact on the neighbors.
Vice Chairman Perestam closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Perestam asked staff to comment on why they felt this proposed addition
would not cause significant cumulative view impact
Assistant Planner Kim explained that the homes located to the left and right of the
project are both two-story homes, and therefore staff did not feel there would be a
cumulative view impairment.
Commissioner Lewis stated that he supported this project at the first meeting and still
supports the project. He did not feel the project introduced any new architectural
elements into the neighborhood and that the view impact it may cause was not
significant.
Commissioner Lewis moved to approve the General Plan Amendment, Zone
Change, Height Variation, and Site Plan Review as proposed by staff, seconded
by Commissioner Ruttenberg.
Planning commission Minutes
September 25,2007
Page 4
Commissioner Knight asked staff if the dome element was a feature that appeared in
any of the twenty closest homes to the applicant's home.
Assistant Planner Kim explained that there are other homes with a dome feature,
however they are not located within the twenty closest homes, but rather are within the
500 foot radius.
Commissioner Knight stated that the dome feature proposed is not within the
neighborhood compatibility of the 20 nearest homes and the homes that do have the
dome feature are at a much lower profile. He felt that this dome proposal does not fit
the neighborhood and has a pop-up look to it.
Commissioner Tetreault felt that compatibility issues may be present regarding the
proposed dome. He explained that there might be less compatibility concerns if the
feature was not so much a dome or a tower as opposed to a full width second story
similar to the one located next door. He noted that a full width second story would block
more ocean space for the neighbor upslope, however. He therefore felt that this design
may be more of a compromise that he felt he could support. Regarding significant view
impairment, he agreed it is a subjective matter, and in this situation if the addition were
on the horizon or blocked any part of Catalina Island or blocked a view of the white
water he would consider that significant view impairment. He noted that this proposal
does none of those and therefore did not think there was significant view impairment.
He stated that he could support this proposed addition.
Vice Chairman Perestam stated that the Mediterranea neighborhood is very large and is
extremely diverse in its architectural features. He therefore was not concerned that this
architectural feature may not be in the closest twenty homes, but was found within the
500 foot radius. He also noted that there is a trade off in this situation between the
architectural feature and preserving the view for the neighbors. He stated that he was
in favor of the project.
The motion to adopt P.C. Resolution 2007-61 thereby approving the proposed
General Plan Amendment, Zone Change, Height Variation, and Site Plan Review
was approved, (7-0).
PUBLIC HEARINGS
3. Height Variation Permit (ZON2006-00179)• 5329 Bayridge Road
Assistant Planner Kim presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the project and
the need for the Height Variation. She explained that staff has several concerns with
the proposal in regards to privacy, view impairment, cumulative view impairment, and
the bulk and mass of the project. Therefore, staff was recommending the Planning
Commission deny with prejudice the proposed application.
Planning commission Minutes
September 25,2007
Page 5
Commissioner Lewis stated that even though his home is not within the 500 foot radius
and is eligible to vote on this matter, he considers this part of his neighborhood and will
recuse himself from the vote. He left the dais.
Commissioner Knight noted that in the staff report it was stated that staff was able to
make the necessary findings for the Extreme Slope Permit, yet still recommended
denial of the application, and asked for clarification.
Assistant Planner Kim explained that because the Extreme Slope Permit was bundled
with the other applications, staff considered the project as a whole and was therefore
recommending denial.
Director Rojas added that because staff was recommending denial with prejudice, the
Planning Commission could separate out the Extreme Slope Permit if they felt it was
appropriate.
Vice Chairman Perestam opened the public hearing.
Louis Tomaro (architect) explained that the subject lot is 9,500 square feet, but because
of the extreme slope in the rear the owners are limited in what they can build on the lot.
He displayed a 3-D animation to help depict the type of architecture proposed and how
this proposed addition affects the neighbors. He pointed out several single story
elements that were designed to open up views for the neighbors located across the
street. She showed several features in his displays which he felt demonstrate
architectural features which will soften the look of the house, which can't be seen with
just the silhouette. He felt that the design complies with the neighborhood compatibility
aspects of the City.
Commissioner Karp asked the architect if he had considered excavating and lowering
the height of the lot which will lower the height of the house.
Mr. Tomaro answered that he had considered that, however he explained that he has
already dropped the floor height of the proposed house down and that the house will
slope down towards the rear of the lot.
Susan Semelca 5329 Bayridge Road (applicant) explained that she and the architect
have worked very closely with staff and that the proposed two-story home will be one of
the smallest two-story homes in the neighborhood, noting there are twelve two-story
homes in the tract, two of which were just approved within the last year. She felt her
proposal represents significantly much less bulk and mass than the other two-story
homes. She did not think the proposed structure significantly impaired views from the
neighbor's homes. She disagreed with staff s finding that the view from 5338 Bayridge
Road and the very small sliver of the San Gabriel Mountains that will be blocked. She
stated that the owners concern was of the city light view that he would be losing, but
pointed out that these lights are well below the 16 foot by right height limit. She stated
Planning commission Minutes
September 25,2007
Page 6
that she has overwhelming support from the neighborhood for the proposed project and
asked that the Planning Commission approve the project.
Vice Chairman Perestam closed the public hearing.
Vice Chairman Perestam asked staff to clarify why the mountains are identified as a
protected view.
Director Rojas explained that the Municipal Code lists aspects that constitute a view.
He explained that the Code states that a view which is protected shall not include
vacant land that is developable under the Code and distant mountain area not normally
visible. ' He stated that in the past there have been times when this is an issue of
debate. He explained that staff's policy has been that there are certain mountains that
are more visible than others as there are some mountains that are visible at times
throughout the year and there are mountains that only appear on very clear days. He
stated that staff determined the mountains seen in this view frame are not distant
mountain areas not normally visible, meaning they are part of the protected view.
Further, there is a portion over 16 feet that is impairing the mountain view.
Commissioner Karp did not agree with staffs recommendation to deny this project with
prejudice. He would like to see the applicant and architect work to redesign the project
to see how much lower the structure can go by excavating the lot.
Commissioner Ruttenberg stated that his main concern is the size of the proposed
house. He noted that this lot is only slightly over 9,000,square feet with an extreme
slope on part of the lot, and the applicant is trying to put what amounts to 4,600 square
feet on the lot. He appreciated that there are other two-story homes in the
neighborhood, however noted that one is on a lot nearly twice as large as the
applicants, and the majority of the other two-story homes are less than half of the size of
this proposed home.
Commissioner Tetreault agreed with Commissioner Ruttenberg's comments, adding
that this proposed home is out of scale with the others in the neighborhood. He also
had concerns regarding neighborhood compatibility.
Commissioner Knight agreed, stating that the size of the home needs to be scaled down
as it is currently out of proportion with the other homes in the neighborhood. He stated
again that he felt the Extreme Slope Permit should be separated from the other
applications, as he felt that application could be approved.
Vice Chairman Perestam agreed with the comments made by the other Commissioners,
adding that he had some concern with denial with prejudice.
Director Rojas explained that in this application there is a Height Variation requested for
a portion of the home to be built over 16 feet in height. He stated that staff felt that
anything built over 16 feet in height will cause view impairment. Therefore, if this
Planning commission Minutes
September 25,2007
Page 7
application were to be denied with prejudice, the applicant could not submit another
height variation application for at least a year. However, the applicant could redesign
and submit a new application at any time that doesn't require a height variation.
Commissioner Knight agreed with staff that anything built over 16 feet in height would
block a view. He stated that he would not be opposed to denying the project without
prejudice, but would like to separate out the Extreme Slope Permit and deny that
without prejudice.
Commissioner Ruttenberg stated that he does not like to deny an application with
prejudice without hearing from the applicant to hear their reactions to the comments
made by the Planning Commissioners.
Vice Chairman Perestam took a straw vote to see if the Commissioners would oppose
any addition above 16 feet in height because of the view impairment of the mountains.
Commissioners Karp, Knight, Tetreault stated that they would most likely oppose any
project over 16 feet in height because of the view impairment. Commissioner
Ruttenberg and Vice Chairman Perestam stated they were not sure they would oppose
all proposed additions over 16 feet in height.
Vice Chairman Perestam re-opened the public hearing.
Louis Tomaro stated that he would like to have the opportunity to work with the
neighbors, especially the one with the view impact, to see if there is anything that can
be done to mitigate the concerns and return to the Planning Commission with a
modified Height Variation request.
Director Rojas noted that November 13th would be the first available meeting where this
item could be heard, and a 90 day extension to the Permit Streamlining Act would be
required from the applicant.
Mr. Tomaro requested the 90 day extension.
Vice Chairman Perestam closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Knight stated that he was open to allowing any applicant the opportunity
to come back to the Planning Commission with possible alternatives, however he
cautioned the applicant that the changes would have to be significant before he could
approve them, as he has an issue with bulk and mass and the view.
Commissioner Ruttenberg moved to continue the public hearing to the November
13, 2007 Planning Commission meeting, seconded by Commissioner Karp.
Approved, (6-0-1) with Commissioner Lewis recused.
NEW BUSINESS
Planning Commission Minutes
September 25,2007
Page 8
4. Annual report on the implementation of the Housina Element
Commissioner Lewis returned to the dais.
Associate Planner Mikhail presented the staff report, briefly explaining the information
provided in the report. She stated that staff was recommending the Planning
Commission direct staff to forward the City's annual report to the City Council.
Commissioner Lewis moved to approve staff's recommendation to forward the
report to the City Council, seconded by Commissioner Knight. Approved, (6-0).
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
5. Minutes of Auqust 28, 2007
Commissioner Tetreault moved to approve the minutes as presented, seconded
by Commissioner Knight. Approved, (6-0).
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
6. Pre-Agenda for October 9, 2007
Given the light Agenda for the October 9th meeting, the Planning Commission verified
with staff that the one item on the Agenda could wait until the second meeting in
October. With that verification, the Commission unanimously agreed to cancel the
October 9th meeting and adjourn to October 23, 2007.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 9:07 p.m.
Planning commission Minutes
September 25,2007
Page 9