PC MINS 20060425CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSIN MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
APRIL 25, 2006
CALL TO ORDER
Approved
May 9 2106
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Knight at 7:05 p.m. at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
Vice Chairman Gerstner led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.
ROLL CALL
Present: Commissioners Karp, Lewis, Perestam, Ruttenberg, Vice Chairman
Gerstner, and Chairman Knight. Commissioner Tetreault arrived at 7:10
p.m.
Absent: None
Also present were Deputy Director Pfost, Senior Planner Schonborn, Associate Planner
Fox, and Assistant Planner Kim.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The agenda was unanimously approved as presented.
COMMUNICATIONS
Staff distributed one item of correspondence for Agenda Item No. 4. Deputy Director
Pfost also stated that the appeal of the Planning Commission decision for 6010 Ocean
Terrace Drive will be heard by the City Council on May 2, 2006.
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE (regarding non -agenda items)
None
CONSENT CALENDAR
1. Height Variation Permit, Grading Permit and Variance — Time Extension
(ZON2003-00465): 4348 Via Frascati
Assistant Planner Kim presented the staff report, explaining that the applicant has
requested a one-year time extension. She noted that the Development Code allow the
Planning Commission to grant a time extension up to one year upon showing of
substantial hardship or delays beyond the control of the applicant, or other good cause.
Therefore, staff is recommending the approval of a one-year time extension on the
project.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked staff, other than the letter requesting a time extension
because of personal reason, if there was any other information available for the request.
Assistant Planner Kim answered that the letter was the only information available to
staff.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked if the Planning Commission was allowed to give
extensions of less than one year, or only one year.
Assistant Planner Kim answered that the Planning Commission could grant an
extension for any time period up to one year.
Commissioner Tetreault asked whether the submitted letter from the architect, being
very generalized, meets the City's standards for establishing hardship.
Deputy Director Pfost explained that in the past the City has received similar letters from
architects, who are the applicants, requesting extensions which have been granted.
Commissioner Tetreault stated that he accepts that the City has, in the past, found this
type of request to be sufficient to warrant the granting of the one-year extension just by
having someone say there are personal issues. However, he was not sure he could
see the distinction between that and an applicant merely requesting more time. He felt
that having language saying one must establish a substantal hardship means more than
an applicant just requesting more time. However, seeing how the City has accepted
such a request in the past, he would accept this request.
Chairman Knight asked staff, in terms of a general request such as this, if it has been
the general policy of the City to accept the request on face value and grant the
extension.
Deputy Director Pfost answered that the City has accepted these types of requests in
the past, noting that the Development Code does allow granting the extension upon
showing of substantial hardship, delays beyond the control of the applicant, or other
good cause. He noted that the Development Code allows only one extension.
Commissioner Ruttenberg stated that the Code says the Planning Commission may
grant an extension of time, however he felt that to grant an extension when the
applicant merely says he has personal issues without further defining them does not
come close to meeting the standards set in the Code. He felt the Planning Commission
is obligated to follow the Ordinance.
Commissioner Karp felt this was all nonsense and that the Planning Commission should
grant the extension. He didn't feel there was any downside to anyone involved in
Planning Commission Minutes
April 25, 2006
Page 2
granting the extension and if the applicant feels he needs the extension because of
personal reasons, then the Planning Commission should grant the extension.
Chairman Knight had no problem in granting the requested extension, as construction
has not started and there would be no impact to the neighbors and it has been the City's
policy in the past to grant these extension requests.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to continue the item to the next Planning
Commission meeting so that, in order to comply with the Code, the applicant can
state in a letter upon what grounds in the Code the extension request is based
on, seconded by Commissioner Ruttenberg. Approved, (4-3) with Commissioners
Karp, Lewis, and Vice Chairman Gerstner dissenting.
CONTINUED BUSINESS
2. Height Variation Permit (Case No. ZON2005-00074): 29225 Oceanridge Dr,
Deputy Director Pfost presented the staff report, explaining this is a request by both the
applicant and staff to continue the item to May 9, 2006 to allow the applicant to work out
issues related to the project.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to continue the item to May 9, 2006, seconded by
Commissioner Ruttenberg. Approved, (7-0).
PUBLIC HEARINGS
3. Height Variation Permit (Case No. ZON2005-00409)1 30831 Rue Langlois
Senior Planner Schonborn presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the project
and the need for the Height Variation. He explained that in the analysis, staff found no
issues with view impairment, however did find issues with neighborhood compatibility
and privacy. He noted that the proposed residence will be over twice the size of the
average home in the immediate neighborhood. He also noted issues with bulk and
mass, especially when viewed from Palos Verdes Drive West, Rue Valois, and Rue
Beaupre. He explained that this residence is on a corner leading into the development,
and therefore is very high profile. He explained that staff felt the design of the residence
was more compatible with the homes across the street at Oceanfront Estates and was
not compatible with the design of the homes in the immediate neighborhood. Regarding
privacy, staff felt that the proposed balconies allow for observation into the neighboring
rear yard. Therefore, staff was recommending the project be denied, without prejudice.
Commissioner Karp asked if it would be possible to dig down on the lot to create a
home that wasn't as tall and massive.
Senior Planner Schonborn answered that would be an alternative, abut would require a
Grading Permit and the appropriate analysis.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 25, 2006
Page 3
Chairman Knight noted that the plan shows roof elevations of 2:12 or lower and that a
clay tile roof cannot be used on this roof pitch. He asked staff if there has been a
suggestion of what type of roof material will be used on the lower roof slopes.
Senior Planner Schonborn answered that staff was not aware of what type of roofing
material would be used.
Chairman Knight asked if the applicant was aware of the wall height limitations in the
visibility triangle.
Senior Planner Schonborn stated that the applicant is aware of the [imitations, however
he noted that this is an existing situation that would not be modified and not a proposed
part of the project.
Chairman Knight opened the public hearing.
Barry Thomas, Whittier (architect) stated that out of the eight major categories listed in
the staff report, he has complied with almost 90 percent of the items. He stated that the
main item staff felt was not complied with was the scale of the project. He explained
that since the project was submitted there have been three or four major revisions to the
design in terms of stepping back the size and mass of the structure. He explained that
in the process of obtaining neighborhood compatibility signatures, at least 30 percent of
the neighbors had no objections and were considering the expansion of their own
homes. He stated that he was open to making some revisions to the glazing in the rear
of the house. He explained that the setback requirements have been met, and the lot
coverage is less than 40 percent. He pointed out that most of the homes in the
neighborhood are 66 years old, noting that the current trend in new homes is for larger
homes with newer features and high design appeal, such as those at Oceanfront
Estates. He stated that he has employed many design techniques to minimize the
mass of the home. He stated that he is willing to work with the Planning Commission
and staff, however asked that the size not be modified.
Commissioner Lewis asked Mr. Thomas for feedback regarding the privacy issue and
the pattern of setbacks raised in the staff report.
Mr. Thomas stated that the proposed residence is not encroaching more than 2 1/2 feet
beyond the existing structure line at the rear, and is still within the setback requirements
allowed by the City. He felt that it goes back to the question of complying with what has
been there for 66 years or move forward. Regarding the privacy issue with the balcony,
he noted that the neighbor's residence only has one window in that location. He stated
he would be willing to work with the neighbor and staff regarding the privacy issue.
Chairman Knight asked what type of roofing material would be used on the lower
pitched roof areas.
Mr. Thomas answered that he is proposing a synthetic material for the roof, which looks
like clay.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 25, 2006
Page 4
Chairman Knight closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Karp noted that this property is unique in that it almost appears there are
three front yards, as the property is surrounded by streets on three sides, and asked
staff to clarify the situation.
Senior Planner Schonborn displayed an aerial photograph of the property and clarified
the front, side, and rear yards.
Commissioner Tetreault agreed with the staffs analysis of the project, and could not
see how this house as presently submitted is even close to being compatible with the
neighborhood. He felt the house would be a very large home in comparison to the other
homes in the neighborhood, and the size and scale were not even close to what is
currently in the neighborhood.
Commissioner Perestam also agreed with the findings in the staff report. He too felt
that the house was much too large for the neighborhood and not compatible in design,
bulk, and mass.
Vice Chairman Gerstner agreed that the proposed home is much larger than the
adjacent homes, however he noted that this is a very unique piece of property in that it
is bounded on three sides by streets and has a major thoroughfare along one side that
is not the front yard. Therefore, he felt that most of the people who experience this
house and are overwhelmed by it are doing so from their moving cars. He noted that
this residence only abuts one other property and the proposed residence does not
infringe on the views of the ocean or any other significant views. Therefore, he felt this
neighborhood could handle the growth that is currently demanded by society. He felt
this house may still be too large, however this piece of property can deal with this type
of change better than most.
Commissioner Karp stated that he has gone on record many times stating that residents
should be allowed to build bigger houses because the housing stock is changing and
people want bigger houses. He felt, however, that this proposal was out of character
and scale with the surrounding neighborhood.
Commissioner Lewis stated that he agreed with the Vice Chairman's comments.
Commissioner Ruttenberg also agreed with the Vice Chairman's comments, adding that
there have been no objections from the neighbors regarding the proposed residence.
He felt, however, that the proposed house is a little too large for the neighborhood and
should be scaled back.
Chairman Knight agreed with the staff report in terms of bulk and mass of the proposed
house. He felt that this house is more compatible with the homes at Oceanfront
Estates, noting that those homes are in a different subdivision with their own standards
and has a different zoning. He stated that he would like to see a sample of the roofing
material for the sections that are below a 2 1/2: 12 pitch.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 25, 2006
Page 5
Commissioner Lewis stated that it will be very significant to his decision that this
property is bounded on three sides by streets, and that his vote may not be the same if
this particular plan were proposed to be sandwiched between two properties.
Commissioner Tetreault stated that in the past the Planning Commission has given
applicants some suggestions as to what can be done to make the project more
compatible with the neighborhood. However, in this particular situation he felt the
project was so ambitious he was not able to pinpoint what needed to be done to make
the project more compatible, and would rather see a very different project.
Commissioner Perestam agreed, stating that there is quite a bit of bulk and mass, and
architecturally he did not know how to compensate for that. He felt that because the
house is surrounded on three sides by streets the project will be more visible and would
be more difficult to hide or mask the bulk and mass.
Commissioner Tetreault moved staff's recommendation to deny the application
without prejudice, seconded by Commissioner Karp.
Commissioner Karp stated that this is a very difficult project, noting that he wished he
could give the architect very specific suggestions on how to redesign the project,
however he could not articulate what could be done to minimize the bulk and mass of
the project.
Commissioner Ruttenberg stated that there is an applicant and architect present who
have indicated they are willing to try to work with the City, and to deny the project would
not be fair under those circumstances. He stated that there is a July deadline and
therefore the Planning Commission has time to help the applicant and architect get the
project approved.
Commissioner Tetreault felt that was a very good point. He noted that, as a stand-alone
project, he found the design of the house to be very pleasing. However, because of
neighborhood compatibility, he was not able to accept this project as currently designed.
He asked staff to clarify the options available to the applicant and Planning
Commission.
Senior Planner Schonborn explained that the action deadline for this project is July 16th,
which allows for additional time for the applicant to redesign the project. He stated that
the Planning Commission can direct the applicant to redesign the project to address the
issues of bulk and mass that have been expressed by staff and the Planning
Commission. He noted that there is still enough time to also modify the silhouette, if
needed.
With that, Commissioner Tetreault withdrew his motion and Commissioner Karp
withdrew his second.
Chairman Knight re -opened the public hearing.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 25, 2006
Page 6
Chairman Knight asked Mr. Thomas when he thought he could have plans ready for
staff to present to the Planning Commission.
Mr. Thomas stated he does not want to wait for a June meeting and would like to
present revised plans at the next Planning Commission hearing, realizing that he would
have to have plans to staff by Monday at the latest. He stated, however, that he has not
been given much direction as to what the Planning Commission is looking for in these
revised plans.
Chairman Knight closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked if re -silhouetting would be required if the mass is
reduced so that the new silhouette is not more massive in any direction.
Senior Planner Schonborn stated that there could be a scenario where if the mass is
reduced and the building footprint is not enlarged, a new silhouette may not be required.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to continue the public hearing to May 9, 2006 to
allow the applicant to work with staff to redesign the project to address the
concerns of neighborhood compatibility, bulk, and mass, seconded by
Commissioner Karp. Approved, (6-1) with Vice Chairman Gerstner dissenting.
4. Height Variation and Site Plan Review (Case No. ZON2003-00557): 28217
Trailriders Drive
Associate Planner Fox presented the staff report, stating the applicant has requested a
continuance of the item to either May 23rd or June 13th in order to make modifications to
the proposed plans.
Deputy Director Pfost noted that the May 23rd meeting is rather full and suggested
continuing the item to June 13th.
Vice Chairman Gerstner moved to continue the public hearing to June 13, 2006,
seconded by Commissioner Tetreault. Approved, (7-0).
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 8:20 p.m. the Planning Commission took a short recess until 8:30 p.m. at which time
they reconvened.
PUBLIC HEARINGS (contl
5. Grading Permit (Case No. ZON2004-00517): 30142 Cartier Drive
Associate Planner Fox presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the project
and the need for the Grading Permit. He stated that staff believed all of the required
findings to approve the Grading Permit could be made, and noted that staff had
received no comments from the neighbors.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 25, 2006
Page 7
Vice Chairman Gerstner asked staff if this proposed house would be similar in
characteristics to the house currently being built adjacent to the subject property.
Associate Planner Fox stated that the two houses are very similar in terms of bulk,
mass, and style.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked if the house currently being built was approved by the
Planning Commission.
Senior Planner Fox answered that the neighboring house was approved by the Planning
Commission.
Commissioner Perestam noted that at the neighboring house there is a retaining wall at
the front of the property, and asked staff if there will be a similar retaining wall at the
subject property.
Associate Planner Fox stated that there is a similar 36 -inch wall proposed at the subject
property line.
Chairman Knight referred to Condition No. 10 regarding construction hours. He noted
that he has heard complaints that construction trucks have arrived at various jobs as
early as 6 a.m. and sit with their engines idling until 7 a.m. when they can start
construction. He questioned if there was a way to add language to the condition to
prevent this situation from happening.
Associate Planner Fox referred to Condition No. 23 regarding the haul route, and
suggested adding language to deal with the truck arrivals,
Chairman Knight opened the public hearing.
Angie Liu (representing Ashai Design, Architect) stated she was available to answer any
questions.
There being no questions, Chairman Knight closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Perestam stated that he supports staffs recommendations for approval
of the project.
Commissioner Tetreault also agreed with staff's recommendations, as he was able to
make all of the necessary findings.
Commissioner Perestam moved to adopt P.C. Resolution 2006-22 thereby
approving the requested Grading Permit, as amended to add language
addressing the construction hours and the early arrival of construction trucks,
seconded by Commissioner Tetreault. Approved, (7-0).
6. Code Amendment — Carao Containers (Case No. ZON2004-00265): City
Planning Commission Minutes
April 25, 2006
Page 8
On advice from the City Attorney, Chairman Knight recused himself from the public
hearing and left the room. Vice Chairman Gerstner conducted the public hearing.
Associate Planner Fox presented the staff report, giving a brief history of the previous
hearings involved with the project. He explained that the Planning Commission had
previously adopted a Resolution regarding the cargo containers and City Council was
due to hear this issue, however before the hearing the Director and Building Official
added language that has not been reviewed by the Planning Commission, and therefore
the matter is back for review of the added language. He explained the new language
added and the reason for the language being added. He stated that staff was
recommending the Planning Commission adopt the draft Resolution, which
recommends the City Council adopt the addendum to the previous Negative Declaration
and approve the Cargo Container Code Amendment.
Commissioner Perestam referred to the long term uses outside of the Portuguese Bend
area on page 4. He recalled the Planning Commission deciding that there would be no
long term use of cargo containers outside the Portuguese Bend area, residential or
commercial, however that is not what is before the Planning Commission in the draft
language.
Associate Planner Fox explained that the language at the top of page 4, with the
exception of the phrase "longer than one year", is the language the Planning
Commission adopted in September 2005.
In reading the text, Commissioner Tetreault felt that the language was clear that long-
term use would be permitted for City use on City property and for Portuguese Bend area
uses.
Commissioner Karp felt the intention of the Planning Commission was to not prohibit the
use of cargo containers in commercial areas, provided certain criteria are met.
Therefore, he questioned whether the wording should be modified to better reflect that
intent.
Commissioner Perestam agreed, noting that he wanted to make sure the Planning
Commission adopts the correct language and not send something to the City Council
that is something different than what the Planning Commission thought they were
recommending.
Commissioner Tetreault stated that, at the invitation of a resident, he was able to drive
around the Portuguese Bend area and observe the many cargo containers currently in
use or about to be used. He asked staff, to their knowledge, how many of these
containers are currently permitted.
Associate Planner Fox answered that to staff's knowledge the only container that has
Planning Department approval through their Conditional Large Domestic Animal Permit
is the storage container at the Pony Club. He noted that there is no building permit for
that storage container.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 25, 2006
Page 9
Commissioner Tetreault stated that he observed cargo containers in the area which are
definitely being used as habitable space, having a front door and garden windows.
Commissioner Karp referred to the language on page 6 stating that cargo containers
should not be used to store hazardous material. He disagreed, noting that he would
rather see hazardous materials in commercial districts stored in the cargo container
rather than in the commercial structure.
Associate Planner Fox stated that this is a health and safety issue, and pointed out that
the only situation permitting long-term use of the storage containers are for City uses
and activities in the Portuguese Bend area.
Commissioner Karp felt it would be quite beneficial for commercial uses, and possibly
the Planning Commission erred in not allowing long-term use in commercial districts.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked if there was a grandfather clause included in the
language.
Associate Planner Fax stated that there is no grandfathering provision currently in the
Code, and therefore there would be no legally established non -conforming uses of
cargo containers.
Commissioner Tetreault stated that, while the goal of the Ordinance is to control the use
of cargo containers, he did not see how permitting cargo containers in an area where he
saw 20 to 30 existing containers would control the use. He stated that these containers
are there and have been for a long time, and people are living inside some of these
containers, the containers are not level, they're not painted, and they're not screened.
He was not sure that by requiring people to get permits for the containers would be
controlling the use of the containers. He was also concerned that the Building Official is
very much opposed to allowing the cargo containers to go in without foundations. He
did not feel he is in a position to second-guess the City's Building Official. He felt that if
the Building Official has a safety concern regarding these containers then he did not feel
the Planning Commission was in a position to veto that concern. Further, if the cargo
containers have to have a foundation then the reason for having the cargo containers
evaporates, because with a foundation a structure other than, a cargo container can be
built. Therefore, he was no longer in favor of what the Planning Commission had
previously done, especially with the comments received from the Building Official.
Commissioner Karp felt that Portuguese Bend is a unique area which requires some
flexibility. He referred to a letter submitted by Robert McJones, who he felt was more
qualified as an engineer than the Building Official to discuss structural matters. He
noted that Mr. McJones felt that cargo containers do not need a foundation, pointing out
that cargo containers are stacked 5 to 6 high on ships that go through very rough
weather. He felt the Planning Commission should divide their thinking between the
Portuguese Bend and the rest of the City. He discussed the use of cargo containers in
commercial areas, noting that a container that is properly painted, shielded, and does
not take away required parking areas is a better solution to storing surplus materials
Planning Commission Minutes
April 25, 2006
Page 10
than all over the outside area. He felt that storage containers should be allowed to store
hazardous materials, as it would be safer than storing them in the occupied building.
Thirdly, he did not think it was necessary to have a 10 -foot separation between cargo
containers, as it would become a catchall for more dirt and debris.
Commissioner Lewis noted that he was not a part of the last 8 hearings regarding the
cargo containers and asked staff if there was any reason he should not be allowed to
vote on the issue at this meeting.
Associate Planner Fox explained that if any Commissioner has missed any of the
hearings they can still vote on the issue if they feel they have enough background
information from reading the minutes or viewing the videos of the meetings.
Commissioner Lewis agreed with the comments of Commissioner Tetreault, especially
those regarding the concerns of the Building Official.
Vice Chairman Gerstner asked if the City currently has any method in place to require
cargo containers be removed from a property.
Associate Planner Fox stated that it is currently a code enforcement issue, noting that
there is one open code enforcement case that relates to cargo containers.
Commissioner Perestam was very concerned with the existing use of the cargo
containers in the Portuguese Bend area and, beside the argument for the need of a
foundation, he did not see the need for cargo containers in the Portuguese Bend area.
He was very concerned to hear people were using cargo containers for habitable use.
He did not think this Ordinance would be enough to get control of the use of cargo
containers in residential areas.
Commissioner Ruttenberg supported Commissioner Karp's comments regarding the
use of cargo containers in commercial areas. He did not like the language regarding
temporary short term uses on page 2, specifically A-1, as he felt this was a "catchall"
and should be eliminated. He felt that items 2, 3, and 4 on page 3 are appropriate for
short-term uses. On page 4 for the long-term uses, he felt that the City uses are
appropriate, but did not like the "catchall" phrase which is B -2-a. On page 5 he felt the
building alternative foundation is appropriate, but was not informed enough to comment
on the equestrian facility uses. He suggested adding another subsection to address the
commercially zoned properties.
Vice Chairman Gerstner reviewed Commissioner Ruttenberg's suggestions for short
term use on page 2 and asked if any Commissioners felt that the Planning Commission
should allow the short term uses as defined in the Section A-1.
Commissioner Tetreault felt that Commissioner Ruttengerg's comments are well taken
in that allowable uses should be very clearly defined.
Vice Chairman Gerstner summarized the comments by stating that the Planning
Commission would like to adjust Subsection A so that it limits the uses to only those
Planning Commission Minutes
April 25, 2006
Page 11
items noted in paragraphs 2, 3, and 4. Further, under long-term uses, add a Subsection
B-3 to allow long-term storage in commercial districts.
Associate Planner Fox stated this does not allow for the short-term use on commercially
zoned property.
Commissioner Ruttenberg questioned why the Planning Commission would not allow
short-term commercial storage.
Deputy Director Pfost suggested taking the cargo container dimensions that are
mentioned in Subsection A-1 on page 2, and by putting them into the definition in
Section 17.96.345 and then deleting Subsection A-1 and renumber 2, 3 and 4, the
temporary uses should be covered.
The Planning Commission agreed.
In discussing long-term use on Page 4, Commissioner Perestam suggested striking
B2(a), as he felt the intent of the Planning Commission was to not encourage long-term
use of cargo containers in commercial zones.
Commissioner Tetreault understood the need for long-term storage in commercial
zones, however he was hesitant to encourage anyone to do something that would make
the City not as pretty as it currently is.
Commissioner Karp felt it would be safer to store hazardous materials in a cargo
container rather than in the business establishment. He stated that he did not want the
containers visible from the street or take any necessary parking spaces in the
commercial district.
Commissioner Ruttenberg suggested using the language regarding cargo containers in
the Portuguese Bend area regarding screening, etc., to describe the situations in which
a cargo container may be used in commercial areas.
Commissioner Lewis noted that language would have to be added regarding parking.
Commissioner Tetreault stated that he could agree to the long term use of cargo
containers in commercial zones knowing that it would be approved at the Director's
discretion, understanding the Commission's concerns are the aesthetics.
Vice Chairman Gerstner agreed, however he felt language should be included that
requires long term cargo containers in a commercial zone be periodically reviewed by
the Director.
Commissioner Tetreault asked if this would affect school property use.
Associate Planner Fox stated that schools could use cargo containers for short-term
use but not long-term use.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 25, 2006
Page 12
Vice Chairman Gerstner thought schools were under a different jurisdiction.
Associate Planner Fox explained that if the purpose of the containers were related to
classroom instruction it would be beyond the purview of the City's Zoning Code to
regulate.
Commissioner Tetreault was concerned about the use of the cargo containers on school
sites that are used by soccer, Little League, and other organized sports and did not
want to have rules where these uses would no longer be allowed.
Commissioner Karp noted that many of these containers on school sites also hold the
emergency supplies for the school.
Deputy Director Pfost suggested language that would include commercial and
institutional zoning districts for long-term use on of cargo containers.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked if there will be a period of time allowed for the existing
cargo containers that do not comply to be removed.
Associate Planner Fax stated staff would have to defer to the City Attorney, noting that
there are provisions in other sections of the Code that have amortization schedules.
Commissioner Tetreault questioned the need for a cargo container for equestrian uses.
He felt that, in most cases, a 120 square foot pre -fabricated accessory structure that
doesn't need a permit would suffice.
Commissioner Tetreault summarized the discussion regarding long term use of cargo
container by stating that the use be allowed in commercial, institutional, and City uses.
Such use would have to meet all applicable development standards and subject to the
review of the Planning Director.
Commissioner Perestam felt there should be some sort of trigger included that would
regulate when the cargo container application should come before the Planning
Commission rather than be a Director approval.
Vice Chairman Gerstner suggested that if more than one cargo container is requested
for a property that it then come to the Planning Commission. He also asked staff to
provide information as to why the cargo containers have to be 10 feet apart, and if there
are any Code issues with storing hazardous materials in the cargo containers.
Commissioner Tetreault continued his summarization by stating the special exception of
Portuguese Bend long-term storage be eliminated.
Vice Chairman Gerstner discussed the use of cargo containers as an alternate building
foundation and did not think the use was any more successful in solving the problem
than the use of a steel moment frame or I -beams. He felt this was a unique approach to
solving the problem, however he didn't feel there was anything inherent in this solution
Planning Commission Minutes
April 25, 2006
Page 13
that makes it capable of solving the problem and the conventional method incapable of
solving the problem.
Commissioner Tetreault objected to the aesthetics and the temptation to live inside of
the cargo containers when used for this purpose.
Vice Chairman Gerstner stated he was not in favor of encouraging residents to start
designing foundations with cargo containers.
Commissioner Karp felt that before making a decision he would like to hear from the
people who use the cargo containers for a foundation, as they may have some benefits
that the Planning Commission doesn't know about or understand. He didn't feel the
Planning Commission had the proper data to make a determination without hearing
from those who use the cargo containers for a foundation.
Commissioner Perestam agreed, adding that if it is determined that cargo containers not
be allowed for foundations there should be a different time frame for the replacement,
as this would entail replacing a foundation in a home.
Commissioner Ruttenberg suggested the Building Official come to the next meeting to
discuss his reasons for wanting cargo containers on foundations.
Commissioner Ruttenberg moved to continue the public hearing to June 13, 2006
and directed staff to revise the draft language pursuant to the comments made by
the Planning Commission, seconded by Commissioner Karp.
Commissioner Tetreault requested at the June 13th meeting staff have additional
information regarding alternative foundations and grandfathering existing structures.
Associate Planner Fox asked if the Planning Commission would like the Building Official
present at the June 13th meeting.
The Planning Commission agreed the Building Official should be present at the June
13th meeting.
Commissioner Karp also requested that Mr. McJones or someone who supports the use
of cargo containers as an alternate foundation be present at the meeting to rebut the
Building Officials comments.
The motion to continue the Public Hearing to June 13, 2006 was approved, (7-0).
Chairman Knight returned to the dais.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
7. Minutes of March 28, 2006
Planning Commission Minutes
April 25, 2006
Page 14
Commissioner Tetreault moved to approve the minutes as presented, seconded
by Commissioner Perestam. Approved, (7-0).
8. Minutes of April 11, 2006
Commissioner Ruttenberg referred to page 4 of the minutes and asked staff to review
the tape of the meeting to determine if Mr. Hoffman had additional comments about the
possibility of, in the future, his neighbor changing his mind regarding the height of the
hedge and privacy.
Commissioner Perestam moved to approve the minutes, as potentially amended,
seconded by Commissioner Ruttenberg. Approved, (6-0-1) with Commissioner
Tetreault abstaining since he was absent from that meeting.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
9. Pre -Agenda for the meeting of May 8, 2006
Commissioner Karp stated he would be absent from the next two Planning Commission
meetings.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 10:38 p.m.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 25, 2006
Page 15