PC MINS 20050809CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 9, 2005
CALL TO ORDER
Ap
October 11
oved
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Tetreault at 7:04 p.m. at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
A boy scout from the audience led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.
ROLL CALL
Present: Commissioners Karp, Gerstner, Golida, Mueller, Perestam, and Chairman
Tetreault
Absent: Vice Chairman Knight was excused
Also present were Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Rojas and
Associate Planner Blumenthal.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Commissioner Mueller suggested hearing Agenda Item No. 2 before Agenda Item No.
1. The Commission unanimously agreed.
COMMUNICATIONS
Director/Secretary Rojas reported that at the last City Council meeting the Resolutions
for the Ella Road appeal and the Ocean Terrace Tract Amendment were formally
adopted
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE (regarding non -agenda items)
None
NEW BUSINESS
2. Site Plan Review and Grading Permit (Case No. ZON2005-00049): 28520
Montereina Drive
Associate Planner Blumenthal presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the
project. He noted that when two retaining walls are closer than three feet to one
another, the Municipal Code states that they should be considered as a single wall. He
stated that staff was able to make all of the necessary findings to approve the project.
Additionally, staff reviewed the location of the freestanding wall in the intersection
visibility triangle, and noted that Public Works had no comment on the location of the
wall and its ability to impair traffic. Therefore, staff was recommending approval of the
Site Plan Review and Grading Permit, as conditioned.
Commissioner Karp asked if the wall was engineered and structurally sound.
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that the applicant does have engineering for
the wall, however the Building and Safety Department has not yet reviewed the
engineering. He stated that if the Planning Commission approves the wall, the next
step will be to submit the plans and engineering to the Building and Safety Department
for review.
Commissioner Golida asked if a geology report had been prepared and reviewed by the
City.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that a soils report will be required to be
reviewed during the Building and Safety process.
Chairman Tetreault opened the public hearing,
Colleen Richter 28520 Montereina Drive (applicant) stated that she felt the staff report is
fair and agreed to the conditions of approval.
Paul Richter 28520 Montereina Drive (applicant) asked for clarification, stating that he
believed the two walls had to be three feet apart to be considered a single wall. He
stated that he had contacted the City and was given information on wall height, and built
the walls according to the information received.
Commissioner Mueller stated that his concern with the wall was when looking from the
street and the neighbor's property, as the wall appeared quite high from these two
locations. He asked Mr. Richter to explain why the wall is as high as it is, and if there is
a possibility of taking a row of blocks off of the wall.
Mr. Richter explained that in building the wall he followed the existing height of the
original fence in the back. He noted that where the wall steps up he was originally told
that the height could be up to 6 feet above level grade of the backyard, however he only
built the wall to the height of the neighbor's wall, which is approximately 5 feet. He
explained that he then dropped the height of the wall down to the original height of the
wall, approximately 3 1/2 feet, as it wrapped around to the front of the house. He stated
that he wanted to build the wall to the maximum height allowed for the safety of his
children.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 9, 2005
Page 2
Chairman Tetreault asked Mr. Richter how this current wall compares in height to the
previous fence in the same location.
Mr. Richter answered that the wall is the same height as the fence was, except in one
location, where it steps up two blocks.
Chairman Tetreault asked about the height of the wall on the south side of the property,
along Toscanini Drive, and if it is at the height the former fence was at.
Mr. Richter explained that the wall is lower than what was there before.
Chairman Tetreault closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Karp asked staff to clarify as to whether Mr. Richter had contacted the
City before building the walls, and if so, why the walls were then built without permits.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that staff felt the Richter's attempted to get
information from the City on what could be built and what permits would be necessary.
He felt that because of miscommunication or misunderstanding the current walls were
then built without permits.
Commissioner Perestam asked staff what the height limits for a wall are that are
adjacent to a road.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that any wall between a structure and a street
is limited to 42 inches in height.
Commissioner Perestam asked if additional height could be added to the wall if it were
open fencing, such as wrought iron.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that 42 inches is maximum without going
through a Minor Exception Permit or Variance.
Commissioner Perestam asked what the current wall height is in that area.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that the freestanding portion of the wall is 42
inches and the rest of the height is gained through the retaining portions of the wall.
Commissioner Mueller asked staff if they looked at this wall in terms of being compatible
with the neighborhood.
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that there is not a neighborhood compatibility
finding in this application, however staff did look at what type of impact the wall would
have on the neighborhood. He stated that staff felt that with the proposed landscaping,
Planning Commission Minutes
August 9, 2005
Page 3
which is to cover the wail with vines, that the wall would not cause an aesthetic impact
to the neighborhood.
Commissioner Mueller asked staff if they felt the wall could be lower, or if it needed to
be the current height because of safety issues. He also questioned if the wall had to be
a solid wall or if it could be some type of open-air fence at the top.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that the entire wall does not need to be at the
current height, however something needs to be at this height. He explained that the
wall currently extends 3 '/2 feet above the applicant's rear yard pad area, which is the
minimum required by the Building Code for the safety rail. He stated that if the Planning
Commission requires the applicant reduce the wall height below 3 1/2 feet, the applicant
will have to provide some type of railing or open fencing to meet the Building Code
requirements.
Commissioner Gerstner asked if the 3 foot high wall along the sidewalk is a retaining
wall, and whether the first 3 feet of the wall above it is also retaining with the upper
portion remaining.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that was correct.
Commissioner Gerstner asked if the height of the total wall is equivalent to the height
required for a guardrail or other protective barrier from the Richter's backyard.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that was correct.
Commissioner Gerstner then asked if the curved wall in the front of the residence is a
freestanding wall, separating the sidewalk from the yard.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that was correct.
Commissioner Golida referred to the proposed Condition of Approval regarding the
planting of vines to help conceal the wall, and asked staff if Planning Department
approval would be required if the Richters chose to stucco the wall.
Associate Planner Blumenthal stated that if the Richters choose to stucco the wall, the
Condition of Approval, as written, will require a revision that will come back to the
Planning Commission.
Chairman Tetreault asked staff to clarify, as requested by Mr. Richter, the City's three-
foot separation requirement regarding walls.
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that walls are considered separate walls when
there is a 3 -foot separation between the walls as measured from the interior side of the
lower wall and the exterior side of the upper walls. He explained that, based on the
information provided by the applicant, the distance between the current walls were
Planning Commission Minutes
August 9, 2005
Page 4
measured from the exterior of the lower wall, thereby providing only 2 feet 8 inches
between the two walls.
Commissioner Mueller felt that having a wall of this height next to the street makes one
take extra consideration on how that wall will appear from the street. He stated that his
concern is that the wall does not have to be a solid wall, but could be an open-air fence
near the top. He referred to the section of wall that steps up at the rear of the property,
and felt that if that is not required to meet the height requirement of the wall, it doesn't
benefit the look of the wall from the neighboring property. He felt that the wall was
adequate in the front yard in terms of the visibility triangle.
Commissioner Karp stated that when he first approached the property, he immediately
felt the wall was extremely high and not attractive at all. He questioned whether or not
this existing wall would have been approved by the City if it had not already been built.
He felt that perhaps the wall should be stuccoed to take some of the starkness away
from the appearance of the wall. He felt that the Planning Commission should consider
how to take some of the harshness out of the wall and make the wall something softer
and more pleasant to the eye.
Chairman Tetreault also felt that the wall, from the vantage point of the street, is not a
very aesthetically pleasing wall. He noted however, that the applicants have replaced a
fence of the same height with the wall. He stated that, while the wall does change the
look of the property, he was able to make the necessary findings.
Commissioner Golida felt this was a complicated application, especially since it is
coming to the Planning Commission after -the -fact. He stated that he was able to make
the required findings, but was struggling with the aesthetics of the wall and what
conditions, if any, could be added to address the aesthetics.
Commissioner Mueller stated that he was not concerned with the view from the viewing
areas, as he did not think the structure was blocking any views, but rather the visual
relationships. He noted that the City is very stringent in regulating the height of walls,
especially in terms of building high walls along the street side of the property. He felt
that lowering the step of the wall on the side wall, and providing a safety rail if
necessary, will help mitigate the mass of the wall from the street. He stated that the
wall, whether stuccoed or covered with vines and vegetation, is still a solid wall.
Commissioner Gerstner felt that it was important to try to balance reducing the size and
scale of the wall along the street while not impacting the applicant too severely. He
suggested looking at and placing more emphasis on the wall at the front portion of the
house rather than trying to address the back of the house. He felt that when one goes
farther towards the back of the house the drop off is more significant and it is the more
private part of the yard. He stated that the front of the house is more public and the wall
affects the character of the neighborhood. He noted that there is a system of pilasters
along the front of the wall that works well with the design until a certain point is reached
in the wall. He suggested having the back wall start at a pilaster instead of at a floating
Planning Commission Minutes
August 9, 2005
Page 5
corner, thereby making the wall appear intrusive. He also suggested taking a portion of
the block off of the front portion, which would drag the wall back and open up the front
yard some. He also felt that it would be better to reduce the length of the wall along the
adjacent street, and instead allow the wall to start at a pilaster.
Commissioner Karp asked Commissioner Gerstner if he would also suggest the stones
in front be covered in plaster.
Commissioner Gerstner felt that any portion of the wall that cannot be reasonably
covered with vines should be plastered.
Commissioner Mueller questioned whether the stepping up of the rear wall is required
and if it would be sufficient to make the rear wall all the same height.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that the minimum safety rail freestanding
portion of the wall is 3 feet 6 inches, per the Building Code. He stated that based on the
information supplied by the applicant, the section of the wall referred to by
Commissioner Mueller goes up to 4 feet 10 inches.
Chairman Tetreault noted that the applicant was requesting she be allowed to
address the Commission, and therefore re -opened the public hearing.
Colleen Richter stated that she had forgotten to submit a document from her neighbors
adjacent to her and directly across the street which states that the wall at the front side
and rear of her property are an improvement to the property and neighborhood as a
whole.
Chairman Tetreault asked Ms. Richter to identify on the aerial photo which neighbors
signed the letter.
Ms. Richter identified the two properties on the photo.
Commissioner Golida asked Ms. Richter if the purpose of building the wall in the back to
the current height was to meet the fence line of the neighbor's fence.
Ms. Richter answered that was correct.
Commissioner Golida asked if that area were to be replaced with something more open,
if it would eliminate some of the privacy in that corner of the yard.
Mr. Richter explained that prior to building the wall, any time he or his wife were in that
section of the yard they could have a conversation with the neighbor. He further
explained that the reason he stepped the wall in that location was, not only to make the
wall the same height as the adjoining wall, but to also give privacy to his neighbor and
himself.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 9, 2005
Page 6
Chairman Tetreault closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Perestam agreed that the wall does need to be stuccoed, as it would be
the one most important thing that would soften the look of the wall. He also agreed with
Commissioner Gerstner's suggestion regarding the step down at the side yard wall.
Commissioner Perestam stated he was able to make all of the necessary findings if the
wall is adjusted in a manner that he would suggest in a motion.
Commissioner Gerstner moved to approve the application with the added
conditions that the wall be stuccoed with a finished plaster on the exterior side;
the block be removed from the wall from the first tall pilaster at the front of the
house along Toscanini Drive; courses of block be removed from the section
towards the corner of the property to an elevation that is equivalent to or below
the top of the next pilaster, which is the first and lowest pilaster along the 42 inch
freestanding wall along Toscanini Drive, seconded by Commissioner Perestam.
Director/Secretary Rojas clarified that if this motion passes and the applicant feels that
for whatever reason they cannot do what is being suggested in the motion, their
recourse will be to either remove the wall or appeal the decision to the City Council. He
explained that if the Planning Commission would rather the applicant think about what is
being suggested and want to offer alternatives, the better course would be to continue
the public hearing to allow the applicant time to consider the suggestions.
Commissioner Gerstner moved to modify his motion to continue the public
hearing and ask the applicant to resubmit their application with some changes to
the walls, and the suggested changes are that the wall be stuccoed with a
finished plaster on the exterior side; the block be removed from the wall from the
first tall pilaster at the front of the house along Toscanini Drive; courses of block
be removed from the section towards the corner of the property to an elevation
that is equivalent to or below the top of the next pilaster, which is the first and
lowest pilaster along the 42 inch freestanding wall along Toscanini Drive,
seconded by Commissioner Perestam.
Chairman Tetreault re -opened the public hearing.
Chairman Tetreault explained to the applicants that the Planning Commission has made
certain suggestions regarding the walls, and asked the applicants what they thought of
those suggestions.
Mr. Richter stated he understood the concerns regarding the aesthetics of the wall, and
that before the project was stopped he was intending to cut the section of the wall on
Toscanini Drive more at an angle. He explained that because of the minor grading that
he has done and the new walls, the front and back yards look nothing like they used to
and are much more aesthetically pleasing. He stated that he would be willing to add to
the pilaster at the corner, as suggested by Commissioner Gerstner.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 9, 2005
Page 7
Commissioner Mueller asked Mr. Richter if he was willing to do the types of changes
suggested by the Planning Commission in the motion, or was he suggesting that the
cuts that are currently on the property are about as far as he is willing to go.
Mr. Richter answered that he is willing to try to work with the City as best he can. He
stated that he would like the City to come out to his yard, however, and explain how the
suggested changes would be more aesthetically pleasing than what his original plan
was. He felt that if that were done he would be more open to spending a lot of money to
get very little affect, or even be a counter affect.
Chairman Tetreault closed the public hearing
Commissioner Golida suggested Commissioner Gerstner withdraw his motion and
consider a motion to continue the public hearing and ask the applicant, after hearing the
concerns of the Planning Commission, to come back with new drawings to reconsider.
Commissioner Gerstner requested to withdraw his motion, and Commissioner
Perestam agreed.
Commissioner Golida moved to continue the public hearing to the meeting of
August 23rd, and ask the Richters to take into consideration the comments of the
Planning Commission and present to staff revised plans, seconded by
Commissioner Karp.
Director/Secretary Rojas asked the Planning Commission if the Richters would have to
present plans, or if it would be sufficient to demonstrate the proposed changes on a
photograph or some other means.
Commissioner Golida did not think a full scale plan would be necessary.
Commissioner Mueller felt that the motion was too open-ended and was not sure he
could support the motion. He felt that many of the Commissioner's concerns centered
around the corner and reducing the mass of the wall. He felt that the simple solution
would be to remove some of the blocks in that area and put in some type of open air
fence of the appropriate height, noting that the more complicated solution would be to
re -grade the area and present a modified wall solution.
Chairman Tetreault had a concern about the open air fencing, as it would be introducing
an entirely new fencing medium to the neighborhood. Further, if the applicants are
trying to achieve privacy they could put in the open air fencing and then plant hedges all
along the area, which would then bring back the situation of a continuous line that can't
be seen through.
The motion to continue the public hearing to the August 23rd Planning
Commission was approved, (7-0).
Planning Commission Minutes
August 9, 2005
Page 8
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 8:50 p.m. the Planning Commission took a short recess until 9:00 p.m. at which time
they reconvened.
CONTINUED BUSINESS
1 Code Amendment (Case No. ZON2004-00265)
Associate Planner Blumenthal presented the staff report, giving a brief history of the
previous meetings. He explained that the Planning Commission had directed staff to
draft regulations that best accomplish the Commission's stated intent on the use of
cargo containers, which is prohibit the permanent use of cargo containers with the
special exceptions for the moratorium area. He explained that staff has discussed this
further with the City Attorney and the Building Official, in which the City Attorney stated
that it was her opinion that the City Council had the ability to amend the Building Code
to allow temporary structures for a period of more than one year, provided the Council
can make a finding that the local conditions warrant such an amendment. He stated
that the Building Code is not under the purview of the Planning Commission, and
therefore the Planning Commission cannot take action on such an amendment.
Furthermore, the language the Planning Commission agrees upon must be in
compliance with the Building Code and all other codes that currently exist. Therefore,
staff was recommending the Planning Commission approve the Resolution before them
and recommend forwarding the Resolution to the City Council.
Chairman Tetreault asked if any of the Planning Commissioners had missed any of the
several meetings for this Code Amendment and not had a chance to review the minutes
for that meeting or watch the tape.
Commissioner Mueller stated that he had missed several meetings, however he has
reviewed the minutes and watched the tape of every meeting he had missed.
Commissioner Perestam asked staff what the current language is regarding
grandfathering of existing cargo containers.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that, as currently written, in order for an
existing cargo container to not be subject to this Ordinance, it would have to have a
current permit. He added that to staff's knowledge there is only one cargo container
that has Planning Department approval.
Commissioner Perestam asked for clarification regarding the language on page 2 that
states storage of materials outside the cargo container shall be prohibited.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 9, 2005
Page 9
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that there was a building code concern, and
the Building Official asked that language be included to ensure that things are not
stacked up against the storage containers.
Commissioner Perestam asked how the City would handle a resident stacking things up
in their yard that does not have a storage container.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that there are property maintenance
regulations that may apply in those types of situations.
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that if the intent of the language is to not stack items up
against the cargo container, the language can be clarified in the Ordinance.
Commissioner Mueller referred to the Negative Declaration and the discussion that
there will be no significant environmental affects from the storage containers, and
questioned how that determination can be made in regards to the actual cargo
container.
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that the key word is significant and that the
Negative Declaration refers to how adoption of this proposed Ordinance would impact
the environment. He noted that this is a finding that the Planning Commission has to
make, and if they feel they cannot make this finding then they cannot adopt the
Ordinance.
Commissioner Golida asked if staff will make a CEQA determination on the cargo
container when an application for a cargo container is submitted to the City.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that if the Ordinance is adopted as written, a
cargo container will require a Special Use Permit from the City, which is exempt from
CEQA. He noted that the CEQA finding is for the Ordinance itself rather than for each
individual container.
Chairman Tetreault felt that the language should be clarified in regards to the use of
cargo containers used for equestrian purposes.
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that cargo containers used for equestrian
purposes would be allowed for storage purposes only and are not intended to be used
for animal housing or office space. He felt that language can be clarified in the
Ordinance.
Chairman Tetreault asked staff to clarify when the Building Code requires these cargo
containers be placed on some type of foundation.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that the Building Code states that a temporary
structure must be on some type of foundation if it is in place for over a one-year period.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 9, 2005
Page 10
Commissioner Golida asked if the cargo containers used for permanent storage in the
Equestrian Overlay District would require a foundation.
Associate Planner Blumenthal stated that those containers would require some type of
a foundation.
Chairman Tetreault opened the public hearing.
Casey Porter stated that he is the president of the Portuguese Bend Community
Association and that he is representing the Board at this meeting. He also noted that he
has a cargo container on his property. He stated that he is not a big fan of the storage
containers and because of their appearance they really don't belong in the average
community. He noted, however, that in the Portuguese Bend community they fulfill a
certain agenda because of the peculiar conditions of the area and have become a
necessary alternative. He did not feel these containers are not temporary, as some of
the homeowners in the area do not have garages or other accessory structures for
storage because they are in the moratorium area. He hoped that the City would allow
the Portuguese Bend Community Association the opportunity to enforce and regulate
the appearance of these containers in the area, as the Board has been actively working
on standards for the containers in the community. He explained that land movement in
the area prohibits permanent foundations on the containers and the moratorium rules
restrict additional building, therefore if the City does not grant an exclusion for the
temporary statues of the cargo containers in the Portuguese Bend area, what
alternatives will the City offer to secure long term storage.
Mike Chiles 11 Fig Tree Road stated that the Pony Club has had their cargo container
for 18 years and never in that time has the City questioned the need for a foundation on
that container. He questioned why the City appears to be exempt from the building
codes for their permanent storage containers and the need for a foundation. He
explained that in 1997 the City passed an Ordinance prohibiting the storage of farm type
equipment outside and stating it must be stored inside. He stated that the residents of
Portuguese Bend do not have the ability to create a place to store this type of
equipment. He requested that the City grandfather in the existing 33 containers in the
Portuguese Bend area, noting there has been no problem with these containers in the
many years they have existed. He stated that a petition was circulated in the
neighborhood regarding cargo containers, and the biggest concerns of the residents
was that cargo containers not be allowed on vacant properties that do not have a home
adjacent to the property and did not want cargo containers to be used as a foundation
system for existing homes.
Chuck Himmelwriaht 21 Kumquat Lane stated that it would not really be feasible to buy
a $20,000 container for storage and it only be allowed to stay on the property for one
year. He also thought it did not make sense to have a better, more expensive
foundation system under his cargo container than he does under his house, noting there
is only one house in the Portuguese Bend area that is still on its original foundation.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 9, 2005
Page 11
Chairman Tetreault closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Perestam asked staff to clarify how and why this item initially came
before the Planning Commission and the extent of community involvement that has
ensured.
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that this was initially was a staff request to the
City Council to initiate the Code Amendment, as staff was receiving numerous phone
calls requesting cargo containers to be allowed and what the requirements were to
place cargo containers on their property. He explained that staffs initial response was
to prohibit the use altogether, however based on testimony over the last several
meetings, the language has been modified to what is currently before the Planning
Commission. Regarding community outreach, the original notice was sent to all of the
HOAs in the City as well as the Council of Homeowners Association. He noted that the
Portuguese Bend Community Association has been the most vocal and involved
regarding the regulations.
Commissioner Karp felt that the Planning Commission discussions should focus on the
Portuguese Bend area separately from the rest of the City. He noted that the Director
has stated that the Planning Commission can make recommendations to the City
Council regarding the Building Code, but the Planning Commission has no authority to
change the Building Code. Therefore, he felt that the motion should center on making a
recommendation this issue be given to the City Council, as the Planning Commission
really can go no further.
Commissioner Mueller disagreed, stating that not all of the Planning Commission may
agree on the recommendations in the staff report, and that he has more questions for
staff regarding the permanent storage limitations. He asked staff to clarify the proposal
for permanent or long-term storage.
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that what is being recommended for long term
storage at this point is for commercial or institutional use and for equestrian in
conjunction with a Large Domestic Animal Permit.
Commissioner Mueller did not think this language addresses the majority of the
concerns raised by the residents in the Portuguese Bend area.
Commissioner Golida recalled that the Planning Commission and staff were attempting
to carve out language regarding some type of long term, temporary use in the
Portuguese Bend area that would not be limited to equestrian use. He recommended
the Planning Commission try to focus on language to get them out of the permanent
storage language and out of the requirement for a foundation for the storage containers
and forward the recommendation to the City Council.
Commissioner Gerstner agreed with Commissioner Golida, stating that he recalled most
of the conversations regarding storage containers revolved around trying to solve the
Planning Commission Minutes
August 9, 2005
Page 12
issues in the Portuguese Bend area, with the equestrian issues being on the peripheral.
He felt that the intention was to try to provide relief for the residents of the Portuguese
Bend area regarding their storage concerns, to allow the storage to be longer term, and
to find a way to allow these containers to not be on some sort of permanent foundation
system. He recalled discussions at past meetings that these containers not be
permitted on vacant lots, noting that he did not see that language in the staff report.
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that there was a concern with that language,
explaining that if a cargo container is allowed on a vacant lot under the same ownership
as the adjacent developed lot and the owner sells the vacant lot, there is an inherent
right to allow the permitted cargo container on that lot.
Commissioner Karp asked if the Planning Commission agrees on the language
presented, with the exception of the Portuguese Bend area.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that he had a few minor changes to the language, which
he could discuss, and after that he would agree to the language regarding the other
areas of the City, and referred to Exhibit A.
There were no objections to the language in Exhibit A, sections A 1 and 2.
Commissioner Mueller stated that he would like to see language regarding the finish on
the outside of the cargo containers, as he felt galvanized metal may cause unsightly
reflections where a neutral color would not.
Director/Secretary Rojas noted that the language currently being reviewed is for
temporary use (30 days), and that such language may be appropriate later in Exhibit A.
There was a lengthy discussion regarding the classifications of cargo containers, and
Director/Secretary Rojas clarified that staff classifies cargo containers into two
categories: temporary storage, which is 30 days or up to one year in the Portuguese
Bend area; and anything other than that is considered long term, which includes
construction containers. He felt that the way the topics are written in the staff report
may be confusing and staff can re -order the topics for clarification.
Chairman Tetreault asked for a straw vote from the Commissioners regarding the draft
language on the use of cargo containers on a permanent basis, which limits the use to
equestrian use only. He suggested that the language in Section E3, third line be
expanded to say that equestrian use be the same use as defined in Section A3 (a),
meaning storage only and shall be not used as habitable space, workshop, animal
housing, or office space.
By a show of hands, the Commissioners agreed (5-1) on that change.
Chairman Tetreault then suggested language be included which excludes the use of
cargo containers on vacant lots in the Portuguese Bend moratorium area, and the
Commissioners unanimously agreed.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 9, 2005
Page 13
Regarding the finish on the outside of the containers, Associate Planner Blumenthal
stated that staff would add language to allow aesthetic alterations to the long term use
of cargo containers as long as they are not structural type alterations.
The Commissioner unanimously agreed to this language being added to the Resolution.
The Planning Commission discussed whether there was a need for distinction between
extended temporary storage (30+ days up to 365 days) versus 365+ days. Chairman
Tetreault suggested, just for the Portuguese Bend area, to eliminate the distinction
between 31 to 365 days and 365+ days. He stated that the same requirements for a
cargo container used for permanent storage would also apply to cargo containers in
place for over 30 days. By a show of hands, the Planning Commission unanimously
agreed.
The Planning Commission had a discussion on, and agreed, that they did not want to
have the storage containers stacked on a piece of property. Chairman Tetreault asked
staff to craft the appropriate language.
Chairman Tetreault asked staff if they had enough information to include a
recommendation to the City Council that the Building Code be amended to allow these
storage containers to be placed without some type of foundation system under them.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that staff will be able to add appropriate
language to include that recommendation in the staff report to the City Council,
Commissioner Mueller was hesitant to recommend to the City Council that the Building
Code be amended, as he felt that unless specific language is recommended on how to
amend the Building Code it may open future discussions on the moratorium area in
general.
Commissioner Gerstner moved to continue the public hearing to the meeting of
September 13, 2005 to allow staff to make the changes as recommended by the
Planning Commission, seconded by Commissioner Golida. Approved, (6-0).
Chairman Tetreault's report on the July 19, 2005 City Council meeting
Chairman Tetreault reported on his attendance of the July 19th City Council meeting,
specifically regarding the discussions of the Planning Commission decisions for 28129
Ella Road and 6270 Ocean Terrace Drive.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
4. Minutes of July 26, 2005
Planning Commission Minutes
August 9, 2005
Page 14
Commissioner Karp moved to approve the minutes as presented, seconded by
Commissioner Gerstner. Approved, (4-0-2) with Commissioners Mueller arid
Perestam abstaining since they were absent from that meeting.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
5. Pre-aaenda for the meeting of August 23, 2005
Chairman Tetreault noted he would be absent from the August 23rd meeting.
Adiournment
The meeting was adjourned at 11:30 p.m.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 9, 2005
Page 15