PC MINS 20050308CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
MARCH 8, 2005
CALL TO ORDER
Approved
April 26,
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Tetreault at 7:10 p.m. at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
Vice Chairman Knight led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.
ROLL CALL
Present: Commissioners Gerstner, Karp, Knight, Mueller, Perestam, and Chairman
Tetreault.
Absent: None.
Also present were Deputy Director Pfost, Associate Planner Schonborn, Associate
Planner Blumenthal, and Recording Secretary Peterson.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The Agenda was unanimously approved as presented.
COMMUNICATIONS
Deputy Director Pfost distributed the packets for the View Restoration case that will be
heard at the March 22nd Planning Commission meeting.
Vice Chairman Knight reported on his attendance at the South Bay Cities Council of
Government Energy Conservation seminar.
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE (regarding non -agenda items):
None
CONTINUED BUSINESS
1. Height Variation (Case No. ZON2004-00194)j 7239 Rue la Fleur
Associate Planner Schonborn presented the staff report, explaining that the plans were
submitted to the City on time, however because of the rainy weather during the past
several weeks the modified silhouette was only recently constructed, and therefore the
applicant was requesting a continuance to the meeting of March 22nd.
Chairman Tetreault asked if there were any time constraints regarding this application.
Associate Planner Schonborn stated that the applicant did grant an extension to the
Permit Streamling Act, and the deadline is now March 24th.
Chairman Tetreault opened the public hearing.
Elmer Zirkel 7233 Rue la Fleur stated that he will not be available on March 22nd and
would like to present his comments now so they would be part of the record for the
March 22nd meeting. He stated that the new structure is taking what was previously
proposed and moving it to the front of the house to completely cover the entire three car
garage, making a pyramid shape with the roofline. He did not feel the applicant took
note of any of the Planning Commission recommendations at the previous meeting, and
did not feel the new proposal was compatible with anything in the neighborhood. He
stated that he has a copy of the plans and did not feel the silhouette accurately reflects
what is proposed.
Chairman Tetreault closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Karp moved to continue the public hearing to the meeting of
March 22, 2005, seconded by Vice Chairman Knight. Approved, (6-0).
PUBLIC HEARINGS
2. Height Variation Permit/Minor Exception Permit (Case No. ZON2004-00219)j
30101 Miraleste Drive
Chairman Tetreault stated that his home is within 500 feet of the applicant's residence,
and therefore recused himself from the hearing and left the room.
Associate Planner Schonborn presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the
project and the need for the Height Variation and Minor Exception Permit. Discussing
the Height Variation, he explained that staff was able to make the appropriate findings
for approval of the application. He noted that staff had received one letter regarding
neighborhood compatibility of the proposed structure, and noted that staff determined
the resulting structure size of the proposed addition would result in a structure size that
is somewhat larger than the neighborhood average however not as large as the largest
home in the neighborhood. He also noted that the style of the home would not be
uncommon in the neighborhood. Regarding the Minor Exception Permit, staff believed
it was warranted due to the practical difficulties of the property. He explained that the
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March 8, 2005
Page 2
entire rear portion of the property is limited by slope and a flood hazard area, and the
only place an addition could be placed on the property would be on the north side.
Therefore, staff believes the appropriate findings can be made to approve the Height
Variation and Minor Exception Permit and recommends the Planning Commission
approve the proposed project.
Commissioner Karp asked how far the building was set back from the existing curb line
to the front of the building.
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that the house is approximately 40 feet from
the curb.
Commissioner Karp asked if there are any plans to widen the street.
Associate Planner Schonborn answered there are no plans to widen the street or put in
sidewalks.
Commissioner Karp felt that the silhouette appeared to be closer than five feet from the
side property line and asked staff if they had verified that the addition will be five feet
from the side property line.
Associate Planner Schonborn explained that staff relies on the applicant's surveyor to
provide staff with the information on how far the addition is from the property line, and
further, if the project is approved there is a condition requiring the setback be surveyed
and certified prior to pouring of the footings.
Commissioner Karp noted there is a flood control channel in the back of the property
and asked if it were possible to cantilever up and over the flood control channel with a
deck.
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that the Development Code does not allow for
encroachments, at grade or over and above, without authorization from the easement
holder, which in this case is Los Angeles County Flood Control.
Commissioner Mueller asked if the City Geologist had reviewed the geology for this
proposed project.
Associate Planner Schonborn explained that, because this is an addition as opposed to
a new house, any geologic review will take place during Building and Safety plan check.
Commissioner Mueller asked if the applicant had presented any alternative plans to
staff in regards to increasing the side setback or articulating the front of the residence.
Associate Planner Schonborn explained that the architect has incorporated articulation
between the two facades, a roof element over the bay window, and several window and
facade treatments that are consistent with the existing structure.
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March 8, 2005
Page 3
Commissioner Mueller asked if the paved parking in front of the house would be
retained.
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that the paved parking area will remain and it
will satisfy coverage requirements.
Vice Chairman Knight asked staff what the net buildable area of the lot is once the
easement area is taken away.
Associate Planner Schonborn roughly calculated the buildable area to be approximately
4,800 square feet.
Vice Chairman Knight asked how that compared with other properties in the area in
terms of their required setbacks, asking if they had similar restraints on buildable lot
area.
Associate Planner Schonborn stated that from what staff was able to assess from
reviewing assessor maps and tract maps, the other properties in the neighborhood do
not have the restrictions that the applicant's property has.
Vice Chairman Knight noted the plans call out a side yard setback on the south side of
the property of 4 feet 9 inches, and asked if the Minor Exception Permit includes making
an exception for that side yard setback.
Associate Planner Schonborn explained that staff considers that setback legal non-
conforming since the residence was constructed under authority of the County.
Vice Chairman Knight opened the public hearing.
John Okorocha 30101 Miraleste Drive (applicant) thanked the Planning Commission for
visiting his property and stated he was available for any questions.
Jacaua Rumery 4465 Mira!este Drive began by distributing color photographs to the
Planning Commission to help illustrate her points. She explained that her home is
immediately to the north of the proposed addition and most likely the only one affected
by this addition. She felt that the proposed setback of the new addition is less than five
feet from the property line, not including the eaves. In addition, there are numerous
windows on that side of the house which will be deprived from all natural light, as well
as wonderful views of the park areas. She noted that the Development Code does not
protect sunlight and air circulation when analyzing a height variation, however she read
in the Neighborhood Compatibility Handbook that open space around a structure
achieved by the required setback allows for sunlight and air, provides privacy, as well as
enhances the character of the neighborhood. She felt it was obvious from her
photographs that the proposed addition will block all natural light to that side of the
house and the lack of sunlight will cause the wood siding on that side of the house to rot
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March 8, 2005
Page 4
and possibly cause fungus and dry rot to develop in the wood which will be very costly
to treat. In regards to the proximity of the proposed addition to her home, she did not
feel the proposed addition was not in keeping with the other homes in the
neighborhood.
Commissioner Mueller re -stated Ms. Rumery's concern regarding how close the
applicant's addition would be to her home at the side yard, and asked staff how close
they felt the two homes would be, taking into account the overhang at the eaves.
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that staff estimates, from eave to eave, that the
two homes would be approximately five to six feet apart.
Jerry Rodin 29600 Western Ave, Rancho Palos Verdes (architect) clarified that any
recommendations made by his geotechnical consultant will be incorporated into the
plans, and that the foundation will be on piles and grade beams. He also stated that the
setback will absolutely be five feet from the north side property line. He stated that the
applicant's property is a difficult one to work with and he tried to design an addition that
would not block any views from the neighboring property, and noted that any views
obstructed are from the side yard, which he did not think had any of the main views. He
stated that if the eave is a problem he can cut that back to one foot. He also explained
that the largest footprint in the area is the house adjacent to the north of the applicant's,
and he feels that house is encroaching onto their property rights and the applicant is
stuck with a very small developable area. He noted that this proposed addition is not
increasing the number of bedrooms.
Commissioner Gerstner felt that the design of the roof above the bay window is not
consistent with the design of the rest of the house and asked Mr. Rodin if he felt it was
truly appropriate for this house on that facade to draw attention to that particular area of
the house, or had he considered making it more understated.
Mr. Rodin answered that the design was created to allow more light into the bathroom
and that it would be very easy to put a gable over that area to bring down the roof,
which would make the area blend in more.
Vice Chairman Knight closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Mueller asked staff what consideration was given to bulk and mass of
the house from the street, noting that in driving in the neighborhood he felt that the look
of the other homes is not as massive as the proposal is from the street. He asked staff
if they had ever discussed with the applicant eliminating the Minor Exception Permit and
moving the addition back.
Associate Planner Schonborn explained that staff encourages applicants to design
something that complies with the Code, however in this instance given the
characteristics of the lot, the smaller setback from the property line provided a better
architectural and aesthetic balance of the new addition with the existing house. He also
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March 8, 2005
Page 5
noted that the topography between the street and addition is approximately five feet,
which aids in mitigating the bulk and mass, as it lowers the height of the structure. Also,
he noted that the ridgeline of the addition is lower than the existing ridgeline, again
lowering the structure. Lastly, the setback is not apparent since the roadway is
approximately 40 feet from the addition.
Commissioner Mueller asked if there are any issues with compatibility regarding the
side yard setback where this proposal will bring another two-story structure closer to an
existing two-story structure.
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that although it brings the structures closer,
staff balanced the equity since the two-story addition to the residence on the north side
was approved with a Variance in 1982. He explained that although the addition
complied with the five-foot side setback requirement, back then compatibility with side
yard setbacks was not considered. Nonetheless, staff felt it established a pattern
whereby if an addition is proposed to comply with the minimum setback requirements it
should not be a cause for denial.
Vice Chairman Knight asked if the bay window encroaches into the 16 -foot setback
area.
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that the bay window does encroach into the
16 -foot setback area, however a bay window is considered an architectural feature and
the Development Code does allow the architectural feature to encroach into the
setback.
Vice Chairman Knight noted that Section 7 of the Resolution should have mention of the
Minor Exception Permit.
Associate Planner Schonborn agreed that should be added to be consistent with finding
no. 7.
Vice Chairman Knight referred to Section 9 of the Resolution and noted that the
language was not included as a condition in Exhibit A.
Associate Planner Schonborn noted that the language would be added in Exhibit A.
Commissioner Karp felt this was a difficult property to build on, however he felt that the
proposed addition was insensitive to the neighbors to the north and very intrusive and
was incompatible with the neighborhood. He also felt that the north wall should be
brought in, if possible. He therefore could not make the appropriate findings to approve
the project.
Commissioner Gerstner agreed that this is a difficult property. He discussed the front
yard setback and the proposed reduction from 20 feet to 16 feet, noting he would be
hesitant to allow an additional few feet of encroachment for the bay window because he
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March 8, 2005
Page 6
didn't feel this was truly a bay window but more a projection of the wall. Regarding the
side yard area, he felt that the architect was trying to keep from eliminating certain
views with the addition and keep the depth of the house from the front side to the back
side relatively consistent with the neighbor. He felt if the new structure were to project
deeper into the flood zone area it would effectively block some views out of the back of
the neighbors house, but by lining it up it would only affect those views immediately
adjacent. He felt that if one person was allowed to build a two-story house with a five
foot setback to the side property line it would be hard to deny that same right to a
neighboring house simply because the houses would be too close to each other. He felt
that if one didn't want a house too close, then don't build your own house as close as
you possibly can to the property line, and if you do you should expect that your neighbor
can do the same thing.
Commissioner Mueller stated that he agreed with Commissioner Gerstner's comments
regarding the five-foot side yard setback. He stated that his main concern was with the
bulk and mass of the house from the street, and if the bay window is compatible with the
neighborhood. He felt that the bay window may help mitigate the bulk and mass of the
addition from the street, however noted that there could be some other alternative
articulation that would achieve the same goal. He was not concerned with the size of
the addition, as the house would still be substantially smaller than the largest house in
the neighborhood. He acknowledged the architect's offer to cut the eaves back one
foot, and felt that would help mitigate the concerns of the neighbor. Given that, he
stated he could make the findings and was inclined to approve the project.
Commissioner Perestam agreed with Commissioner Karp in that this addition may be
somewhat insensitive to the neighbor, however the Code does allow for a five-foot side
yard setback, noting that the neighbor has a five foot side yard setback and the
applicant deserves the same right. He felt that both neighbors could be jeopardized and
impacted in the long run from this addition and the proximity to the side yard property
line. He appreciated the offer from the architect to cut back the eaves on that side of
the property. He concluded by stating he could make the necessary findings to approve
the project.
Vice Chairman Knight stated that in driving in the neighborhood he did not see any
other homes that are this massive or this close together, and he empathized with the
neighbor to the north. He also empathized with the neighbor in regards to loss of solar
access, noting that the City does not have a solar access ordinance, and that the
applicant has complied with the requirements of the Code. He felt that the bay window
was troublesome in terms of the setback and architectural style, noting there is no other
bay window in the neighborhood that is similar. He stated he was in favor that the bay
window be redesigned to be more compatible with the other structures in the
neighborhood.
Addressing Commissioner Mueller's comments about the bay window, Commissioner
Gerstner felt the bay window actually increases the massiveness of the front of the
house rather than decreasing it. He felt that because of the way the roof has been
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March 8, 2005
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adjusted over the top of the bay window the appearance of the mass of the front of the
house increases.
Commissioner Mueller appreciated the comments made by Commissioner Gerstner,
and felt that in crafting a motion it would be wise to give the applicant and architect a
chance to redesign the window rather than eliminating the window.
Commissioner Gerstner suggested re -opening the public hearing to ask the architect his
opinion on what can be done with the bay window.
Vice Chairman Knight re -opened the public hearing.
Jerry Rodin stated that there would be no problem in pulling back the bay window,
explaining that the reason it was put there was to change the look of the flatness of the
elevation. He stated that he could also change the gable roof to more of a hip roof to
follow the same lines of the existing roof.
Commissioner Gerstner felt that adding a hip roof would still draw attention to the area
and not help reduce the appearance of bulk and mass.
Mr. Rodin replied that he could remove the bay window, making the window flush with
the wall, and take the eave and run it straight through. He felt by doing so, the issues of
bulk and mass would be satisfied.
Vice Chairman Knight closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Gerstner moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2005-13 thereby
approving Case No. ZON2004-00219 with the following changes: 1) make the
changes discussed in Section 7 of the Resolution and make Exhibit A consistent
with Section 9; 2) require the north face eaves, both first and second floor, of the
residence be reduced from the current 2 feet to 1 foot; and 3) the walls around the
master bathroom be taken back to be in the same plane as the current wall and
that the roof and eaves in the front be consistent all the way across, seconded by
Commissioner Mueller. Approved, (4-1-1) with Commissioner Karp dissenting
and Chairman Tetreault recused.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 8:50 p.m. the Planning Commission took a short recess until 9:00 p.m. at which time
they reconvened.
PU'= LIC HEARINGS (cont).
3. Conditional Use Permit (Case No. ZON2004-0-0503): 32201 Forrestal Drive
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March 8, 2005
Page 8
Associate Planner Blumenthal presented the staff report, explaining that Verizon has
existing equipment cabinets at this address for the phone system that services the
Seaview Tract. He explained that the current equipment was installed in 1989, however
at that time the City did not require Verizon to obtain a Conditional Use Permit. He
explained the scope of the project, noting that staff determined that a Conditional Use
Permit would be appropriate for this application. He stated that staff could make all
necessary findings and was recommending the Planning Commission approve the
application.
Commissioner Mueller asked if this equipment services wireless phones as well as land
lines.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that the equipment is strictly for the land lines.
Vice Chairman Knight asked if the trailer at the site is part of this permit.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that the trailer is a temporary trailer in place to
help re-establish phone service in the area after it partially failed last year, and the trailer
will be removed once the new service cabinets are in place.
Vice Chairman Knight asked if this could be made a condition of the Conditional Use
Permit.
Associate Planner Blumenthal responded that such a condition could be added.
Chairman Tetreault opened the public hearing.
Jess Aguilera (representing Verizon) explained that approximately one year ago there
had been a power surge in the area that damaged the equipment, and temporary circuits
were transferred to the temporary trailer at the site, and as soon as the new equipment is
in place the trailer will be taken off of the site. He stated that he was available for any
questions.
Vice Chairman Knight noted that the manhole in front of the trailer is wooden, and asked
what Verizon's plans were for that particular manhole.
Mr. Aguilera explained that once the equipment was in place the manhole will be replaced
with a traditional manhole cover.
Chairman Tetreault asked if there would be any additional noise or any other way that a
passer by using the facility would take notice that something is back in that area that
wasn't there before.
Mr. Aguilera answered that there will be no indication that there is any equipment back
there.
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March 8, 2005
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Vice Chairman Knight asked how Verizon will access the area to put the new panels in.
Mr. Aguilera answered that Verizon will access the area from the front.
Vice Chairman Knight asked how large the truck will be that installs the equipment.
Mr. Aguilera answered that Verizon uses regular vans for that type of use.
Chairman Tetreault closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Mueller referred to the Vice Chairman's concern regarding the temporary
trailer, and wanted to make sure that if a condition were added about the removal, that it
not preclude the use of a temporary trailer if there were a need for one in the future.
Vice Chairman Knight agreed, adding that he would also like to add a condition that the
heavy metal manhole cover be in place.
Commissioner Perestam asked staff what was making this site not visible from any
adjacent properties.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that the location of the equipment is what was
making it not visible from adjacent properties, as it is downslope and hidden from
adjacent properties.
Commissioner Perestam asked if there was a need to shield the equipment from the
parking lot area.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that there is some existing slats already in the
fences that help hide if from the Ladera Linda parking lot.
Commissioner Perestam felt that the equipment cabinets will be taller than the existing
fences and would like to see a condition that the cabinets are better shielded from the
parking lot area.
Associate Planner Blumenthal suggested the Planning Commission could add a condition
to require the fencing be revised so that it is taller than the equipment and that some type
of slating is added to the fence.
Commissioner Mueller agreed with that suggestion.
Commissioner Perestam moved to adopt P.C. Resolution 2004-14 thereby
approving the Conditional Use Permit with the amendment that the area be
shielded by a fence that is 6 inches higher than the tallest container at the Verizon
site, seconded by Commissioner Mueller.
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March 8, 2005
Page 10
Commissioner Mueller suggested an amendment to the motion to add a condition that the
wooden manhole cover be removed at the completion of the project and replaced with a
metal cover.
Commissioner Perestam accepted the amendment.
Vice Chairman Knight suggested an amendment to the motion that the trailer shall be
removed upon completion of the proposed cabinet installation, but the condition not
preclude a temporary trailer for emergency purposes.
Commissioner Perestam accepted the amendment, seconded by Commissioner Mueller.
The amended motion was approved, (6-0).
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
4. Minutes of February 8, 2005
Vice Chairman Knight noted a clarification on page 10 of the minutes.
Vice Chairman Knight moved to approve the minutes as amended, seconded by
Commissioner Karp. Approved, (4-0-2) with Commissioners Mueller and Gerstner
abstaining since they were absent from that meeting.
5 Minutes of February 22, 2005
Commissioner Karp noted a clarification on page 14 of the minutes.
Vice Chairman Knight noted a spelling clarification on page 12 of the minutes.
Chairman Tetreault noted a clarification to page 15 of the minutes.
Commissioner Knight moved to approve the minutes as amended, seconded by
Commissioner Perestam. Approved, (5-0-1) with Commissioner Gerstner
abstaining since he left the meeting early.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
6. Pre-Aaenda for the meeting of March 22. 2005
The Planning Commission discussed the pre -agenda for the March 22nd meeting.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 9:32 p.m.
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March 8, 2005
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