CC MINS 19781211 SPC M I N U T E S
RANCHO PALOS VERDES CITY COUNCIL
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING
DECEMBER 11, 1978
The meeting was called to order at 7:30 P.M. by Mayor Ken Dyda at the Palos Verdes
Peninsula Unified School District Building, 30942 Hawthorne Boulevard. After Pledge
of Allegiance to the flag, roll call was answered as follows:
AYES: BUERK, SHAW, HEIN AND MAYOR DYDA
ABSENT: RYAN
Mayor Dyda explained that the only topic to be discussed would be the preliminary
report, Phase I of the Geology Study. After Council discussion, the meeting would
then be opened for comments from the audience.
The Mayor referred to the recent problem on Palos Verdes Drive South adjacent to
Narcissa where the flow and continuing movement of earth in that area created stress
levels high enough to cause eruption in a concrete water main. The washout was pri-
marily due to the water leaked and there was no large movement of earth in that area.
He reminded the audience that this was a draft report that identified a number of
problems, some of which would take the remainder of the study to identify completely.
Further, that it would take additional study to determine what would be the best
technique to improve the stability of the area.
Director Pikus referred to Phase I of the preliminary report wherein the
geologists defined the boundaries of the Abalone Cove landslide and stated that
they correspond to the boundaries of the most recently active large prehistoric
landslides in the area. This area moved in the recent past and is estimated to have
moved several centuries ago. The current boundaries seem to coincide with those of
the movement of several centuries ago. The boundaries basically extend 1500 feet
along the shoreline at Abalone Cove and inland approximately 2000 feet to the vicin-
ity of the intersection of Narcissa Drive and Cinnamon Lane. The entire area and the
areas surrounding it are subject to instability due to the composition of the sub-
surface bedrock and the topography of the area. The bedrock consists of Altamira
shale which contains beds of bentonite scattered throughout. It is along these
bentonite beds that the sliding occurs. The bentonite has a low shear strength and
the beds dip toward the ocean. In the report, the geologists analyzed the possible
causes of the reactivation as follows:
1. A fundamental cause of the instability is the undercutting of the sea-
ward dipping bentonite beds in the surf zone. This is an underlying
cause and not the triggering cause of the earth movement.
2. It is highly improbable that an earthquake has caused the new movement as
no significant earthquakes have occurred in this area recently.
3. Man-made vibrations, principally from vehicular traffic, are unlikely to
be the cause of the new movement due to their low intensity and the depth
of the slide surface.
4. Beach erosion is probably not the immediate cause of the new movement,
although its long-term effect has undoubtedly reduced stability.
5. Deposition of sedimentation near the head of the slide is also not the
immediate cause of the new movement, although its long-term effect has
undoubtedly reduced stability.
6. There has been no significant grading activity within the Abalone Cove
landslide during the past twenty years, which would be sufficient to
cause activation.
-1-
7. The movement of the Portuguese Bend landslide has not directly effected
the Abalone Cove landslide as their boundaries are not coincident.
8. Ground water appears to be the most likely factor triggering the new
movement. The sources of this ground water are precipitation both
within and outside the slide boundaries, water which has migrated
laterally from other areas, domestic water from yard watering cess-
pools, seepage pits, and leach lines, and domestic water from breaks
in water pipes.
This water has increased the plasticity of the clay along the slide surface and re-
duced frictional resistance, and the accumulated water has provided buoyancy to the
slide mass and pressure causing an additional driving force.
This year's heavy rainfall was cited as being a very likely triggering agent for
the renewed movement. The geologists will be placing observation wells to test this
hypothesis. They will also be evaluating the significance of domestic water on the
movement.
Council inquired as to the status of the sewer maintenance district and the Director
responded that an analysis had been made of the most appropriate method of establish-
ing a district. It has been determined that the 1913 Bond Act would be the quickest
procedure for setting up this district. The boundaries and design work have also
begun on this matter.
Council referred to Page 4 of the geologists' report about the comment regarding the
small slide within the County beach area and asked if this referred to the County Beach
Slide, or to the whole Abalone Cove Slide as defined in the report. Director Pikus
said he felt it referred to the entire Abalone Cove landslide area. Council requested
this be clarified in the final report.
The next item referred to was on Page 11, second paragraph which summarized the dif-
ferent sources of water. Council felt that some attempt should be made to establish
the order of magnitude of these sources. Director Pikus responded that it was the in-
tention of the geologists to estimate the significance of each of these quantities.
Page 12, second paragraph the sentence". . .because water always flows from the areas
of higher water tables to areas of lower water tables, it should be possible to de-
termine in which direction water is flowing and the probable sources." This statement
was cited as being very conceptual and Council requested to know how far up this actually
related. Director Pikus responded that future borings would determine the water tables
in different areas to determine the origin of the flow.
Council requested more detail on the underground build-up of the water table in
Portuguese Canyon, up-slope from the Portuguese Bend landslide. Director Pikus
responded that at present the geologists did not have that detail. The observation
wells would give him that type of detail in the final report.
Mayor Dyda then opened up the meeting for comments from the public.
Bill Griffin, 5 Ginger Root Lane, said that he would like to discuss the area. He was
concerned about the identified area of slippage. He has seen cracks two to three
inches wide in the Betty Field property and the Donahower property coming across off
Peppertree and Pomegranate. The road has moved four inches in the last three months.
In July the movement was one-half inch, spread across a series of little cracks.
However, after the last rain this fissure showed approximately two inches across the
dirt, going on down the bank. He noticed this while walking down Altamira Canyon and
in the bottom of the canyon. He followed it through across this property in a straight
line and on up through a vacant lot heading towards Cinnamon and the Tretheway property.
(The line referred to extended between Peppertree and Pomegranate in the general direction
of Pomegranate up towards Persimmon.)
Since no preparation work has been done, he was in favor of filling in the depressions
east of Rocky Wood's property. He said that the large stable area collected water:
some of it runs off, but most of it stays in one spot. That area is about an acre in
size. Also, there's a very large pond at the intersection of Narcissa, Cinnamon and
Ginger Root Lane. The water sits about three feet deep and is there for weeks at a time.
Council Meeting -2- 12/11/78
He wanted to know if it was worthwhile for the Portuguese Bend Association to coat
the roads to seal off cracks. These roads are designed as a conduit to lead water
off the hill and now the water is being intercepted by the cracks.
Mayor Dyda responded that at this time the City was unable to make recommendations.
If the association wanted to do something, and if approved by the geologists, the
process for waivers was available.
John Tretheway, 1 Cinnamon Lane, President of the Portuguese Bend Homeowners Association,
said that they wanted to spend their money in the best possible way. He tried un-
successfully to get in touch with the geologists in an effort to try and coordinate
efforts with them. Referring to a drain under Narcissa Drive, near the Wayfarer's
Chapel, he suggested unplugging this so the water wouldn't settle on top of the slide
area.
Director Pikus responded that it wouldn't be appropriate to unplug it at this time.
Currently, the water goes down Narcissa Drive and down to Palos Verdes Drive South
and into proper drainage channels.
Mr. Tretheway said that he got the impression from the report that there are possi-
bilities that some of the sewage flow may be coming down from Rolling Hills.
Mayor Dyda responded that the report does refer to ponding, but the source has not
yet been defined. Part of the second phase of the study is to go beyond the immediate
obvious area.
Mr. Tretheway said he felt it was important for the City of Rolling Hills to be alerted
to this because developments are being programmed for the area and this would mean
more cesspools.
Mayor Dyda said that he has been in touch with the Mayor of Rolling Hills and he is
aware of what this City is doing and the implications. The City of Rolling Hills has
had the County Engineer take a look at it and they have been advised that at this time
there are no problems in the City of Rolling Hills. They are aware that some of the
ground water referred to in the report could be coming from outside the boundaries of
the City of Rancho Palos Verdes. Rolling Hills is aware of the report and will be
working with Rancho Palos Verdes on the matter.
Another problem referred to by Mr. Tretheway is the ponding in certain areas of the
community. These ponds are the result of homeowners changing the contour of their
property and consequently eliminating the drainage flow from the adjoining lots. He
cited a case eight years ago of a vacant lot across which the water flowed. The
ditch on the lot was used for dumping and this eliminated the natural drainage.
Consequently, the lots on either side have ponding problems. He requested that this
matter be referred to the City Attorney to see whose responsibility it was to open
up this drainage channel.
The Mayor said that we would need more specific information as to when it occurred to
see if the City has some responsibility.
Mr. Tretheway said that he would assume that most of the channels that have been
altered were done before the City was formed.
Council directed Staff to ask the City Attorney what jurisdiction or responsibility
the City has to open natural drainage courses which were blocked prior to the City's
formation.
In response to Council's question, Mr. Tretheway said that he could provide the City
with a map of the locations of these altered ponds.
Council discussed the formation of a district which would handle problems resulting
from water and it was suggested that the City Attorney define: (1) the legal process
for setting up such a district; (2) funding of this special district; and, (3) powers
which the City could delegate the district. It was suggested that it could be similar
to the special Parks and Recreation Districts already within the City.
Mr. Tretheway said that most of the ponding problems are occurring on property not
within the jurisdiction of the homeowners association. He specifically mentioned the
riding stable area.
Council Meeting -3- 12/11/78
After Council discussion, it was concluded that such a district would include not only
the area within the boundaries of the homeowners association but every area that has
such a water ponding problem.
The City Attorney was requested to explore whether or not the City has the authority
to form such a district.
Mr. Tretheway identified the homeowners association boundaries for Council. Essentially,
it is made up of 13 areas of land that have been dedicated over the years and have been
brought into the declaration under CC&Rs. It is bounded by Palos Verdes Drive South on
the South and included Tract No. 14118 which is the old slide area.
It then cuts across the lot designated on the map, between Sweet Bay and Upper Narcissa:
all of the lots oceanward of Narcissa: the lots that fronton Sweet Bay and excludes
the large agricultural sections that form the triangle between Sweet Bay and Pepper
Tree. Then it picks up all of the properties on the named streets in the area.
The stable area is not included. It included the boundaries of Tract No. 13836, and
follows Narcissa around the bend to Tract No. 20352: the Woods and James Ishibashi
properties: property between their homes and Wayfarer's Chaper. The raw land between
the Chapel and the association is not in the association.
Additionally, the properties on Narcissa Drive after the hairpin turn: property around
the 1800 numbers: and Tract No. 14196 above upper Narcissa. Anything up off Vanderlip
Drive is not included.
Ralph Jester, 20 Narcissa Drive, said he noticed the geologists were drilling on property
between Ishibashi and the Woods' properties. They drilled about 75 feet deep when they
lost the bucket. As a result of the drilling, they found about ten or fifteen feet of
water at this level and asked whether that water was going to remain there indefinitely
or if it was possible for it to be pumped out and who would pay for the pumping.
Mayor Dyda said that one of the functions of the study was to find out where the water
table is in the various areas. The preliminary analysis showed that removing water would
help improve the stability of the area. The second step would be to see what it would
take to remove the water. Technically it may be feasible to pump at this time, but
whether it was the appropriate thing to do was not yet known. When dewatering does
take place, the City has to determine how much to pump, what size pumps, where they
will be placed and what will be done with the water that is pumped out. When the
geologic study is completed there will be a clearer definition of the problem. This
will give the City an opportunity to look at all the alternatives. The total contract
requirement is for 15 weeks and the City will have to wait about 11 more weeks before
the entire study is completed, all of the test holes have been dug, and the calculations
have been made. Now a determination has to be made as to how extensive the problem is.
At this time, it is not known how effective dewatering will be.
Council then remarked that the contract with the geologists does not define specific
technical projects that can be done by the special district, the homeowners association,
or the City. As far as the City is concerned, the job which was contracted for is to define
exactly what is happening. Homeowners were advised to think about how the problem could
be resolved because it is something they will have to work on. The role of the City in
this project is as a facilitator. The property owners have the responsibility of deal-
ing with the problem. Council stated that the homeowners should not look to the City
to solve this situation.
Mr. Ed McClafferty, 26 Narcissa Drive, asked if the consultants could advise home-
owners about problems such as filling in cracks that appear on their property.
The Mayor responded that the homeowners have the ability to hire a contractor to advise
them on how to solve some of their problems. It was, however, up to the individual
resident to take whatever action they feel is necessary to alleviate the problem. Since
they occur on private property, there is some question whether the City can go in and
put in dewatering wells, or go on vacant property and seal cracks. When the total scope
of the problem has been defined, the City will then take up the question of what it is
that can be done and who is responsible.
Council Meeting -4- 12/11/78
Dave Ruth, 40 Cinnamon Lane, queried if the contract included the geologists re-
commending mitigating measures. Since it seemed obvious that the probable cause
were the heavy rains of last winter, he hoped that in the next phase the geologists
might be able to advise on some way of diverting heavy rain water.
Council reiterated that the homeowners should do whatever they can on their own to
alleviate damage.
Dr. Melvyn Lewin, 30 Narcissa Drive, said that there were several homeowners such as
Mr. Griffin and Mr. Ishibashi who have a great deal of knowledge and expertise about
the area. He cited the fact that an appointment was made with Mr. Ishibashi but had
been cancelled and was not reset for a later date. With regard to the dewatering, he
felt that this program should take place immediately.
John Vanderlip, 99 Vanderlip Drive, pointed to the location of a small brook that
flowed all summer along Vanderlip Drive. It stopped in August, which was when the
ground movement started. He suggested diverting that water and planting certain
kinds of trees. He also suggested some method of injecting chemicals into the soil
which react like cement.
John Tretheway told the Council that he wanted to be sure they understood that the
areas where the greatest amount of ponding took place were not within the boundaries
of the association. The biggest ponding occurred above Pepper Tree Drive in a
canyon that held about a million gallons of water last year. Another area was the
riding stable and the canyon above the Ellen Vanderlip property where there is a
duck pond. The Filorium property that was just recently sold was also indicated as
having large ponding. The association's CC&Rs specifically give authority over
certain defined drainage areas as set forth on maps recorded with them. The Association
cannot go into somebody's back yard and put in a drainage channel. The major sources
of standing water are all outside the jurisdiction of the association. He asked if
the City had the responsibility for these areas.
If residents within the association have blocked the natural course of drainage, Mr.
Tretheway said that these should be identified and the City Attorney should find a
way of getting these areas unblocked.
Rocky Wood, 15 Narcissa Drive, wanted to know if the association had to get the
geology information independent of the study that was done for the City.
The Mayor responded that until the final report was available, the Council was not
in a position to make any judgment on what the association should do. If homeowners
wanted to take action, the City has a process to speed up handling waivers for the
moratorium area.
Mr. Wood inquired if something was going to be done to cover up the hole made by the
geologists.
Council requested that Staff find out if the geologists intended to cover these
testing areas.
Ralph Jessup, 6 Narcissa Drive, referred to the underground lake discovered by the
geologists and asked if they had determined if it should be pumped out and what
should be the next step.
Mayor Dyda responded that at the present time there wasn't enough information to
speculate on this situation.
With the use of a drawing, the Mayor explained how the water reached the water table
and formed an underground lake.
Council discussion then ensued regarding the make-up of the special district that
was discussed earlier. The property owners within a certain boundary would form this
district and it would be headed by either district members or the City Council. They
would have the responsibility of raising revenue within the district to accomplish
the engineering and facilities to do the technical implementation of the project to
pump out the water.
Mr. Jessup was advised that this was just one possibility and that possibly others
were available but had not yet been investigated.
Council Meeting -5- 12/11/78
It was the consensus of Council that the information and ideas presented at the
meeting should be passed on to the geologists.
Council then proceeded to consider the recommendations made by Staff.
Director Pikus then listed the recommendations as follows:
1. The City request California Water Service to locate all of
their lines in this area above ground.
2. The City request residents in the area to reduce lawn and
plant watering.
3. The City request residents in the area to reduce consumption
of water for all domestic purposes.
4. The City recommend to the residents that they place their
water service lines above ground.
5. That the City continue groundwork for the formation of a
sewer maintenance district.
Councilman Buerk moved that the City explore with the California Water Service
Company the possibility of replacing their water lines above ground. The motion
was seconded by Councilwoman Hein and carried unanimously.
Councilwoman Shaw moved that 2 and 3 be adopted as recommendations to be made to
residents in the area: that they be informed of these mitigating measures. The
motion was seconded by Councilwoman Hein and carried unanimously.
Since the City was considering the formation of a sewer assessment district for the
public health, welfare and safety of the people in the area, it was the consensus
of Council that recommendation No. 5 be referred to the City Attorney for his
investigation of the legal considerations.
In considering this special district, the City Attorney was directed to investigate
if nonbenefitting property could be excluded. However, if the geology becomes
sufficiently stable to allow building on these now vacant lots, then the owners
of those lots should assume their share of the assessment district.
Director Pikus said that the major steps in the formation of this district would be
determination of the boundaries, the engineering report and then it would proceed
to the public hearing stage. Under the 1913 Bond Act a cost estimate would be
presented at the public hearing and bonds would be sold based upon the estimated cost.
In response to Council's request, Director Pikus said that he would research the
work already done by the County in 1962 with regard to setting up such a district.
Mayor Dyda moved that Staff and the City Attorney be instructed to look at the
alternatives available to the City for the institution of a sewer district. Included
in these considerations should be the question of non-benefitting property, as well
as a timetable for that process and present to the Council at the December 19th
meeting. The motion was seconded by Councilman Buerk and carried unanimously.
ADJOURNMENT At 10:30 P.M. Councilwoman Hein moved,
seconded by Councilwoman Shaw, to adjourn
the meeting. The motion carried unanimously.
v'� t f
MAYOR
ATTEST:
LEONARD G. WOOD, CITY CLERK AND
EX OFFICIO CLERK OF THE COUNCIL
Alle/L./ 4P. .10 Art,'4
0(CIT/ C E"9
Council Meeting -6- 12/11/78