Loading...
CC MINS 19810630 JNTRANCHO PALOS VERDES CITY COUNCIL /PARKS AND RECREATION WORKSHOP JUNE 30, 1981 The meeting was called to order by Mayor Bacharach at (7:30 p.m.) PRESENT: SHAW, MAYOR BACHARACH ABSENT: RYAN, DYDA, HEIN Also present were Maynard Law, Director of Parks and Recreation, Don Guluzzy, City Manager, and members of the Parks and Recreation Committee --- Larry Zamos, Bob Gibson, Fred Jackson and Al Rosenthal. There was no quorum so any motions to be made would have to wait until the arrival of Councilmen Ryan and /or Dyda. An informal agenda was set as follows: (1) Priorities of Park Development (2) Parks and Recreation Budget - Capital and Operating (3) Peninsula Parks and Recreation Program (4) Definition of Parks and Recreation Committee (5) Communication Between Staff and Council The purpose of the meeting was to discuss the above items in an informal manner. The Council would then make decisions on how to deal with the ...problems and concerns of the Committee. Mr. Zamos stated that he thought priority and budget tied in together. The peninsula-wide recreation program tied into the charter, however, the charter as presently written did not say that. Mayor Bacharach explained to the Committee that there had been a lot of comment regarding the wording of the charter from the other com- mittees. The July 21st Council meeting would deal with the charter wording. At this meeting the feelings of the Parks and Recreation Committee would be heard. Mr. Jackson stated that sometimes the Parks and Recreation Committee gave recommendations to the Council but those recommendations were ignored. Councilwoman Shaw told the Committee that the Council did review recommendations from the Committee but there were times when Council disagreed with the Committee recommendation. Mr. Jackson also stated that the priorities of the City Manager had not been given to the Committee and not having those priorities left the Committee up in the air. Mr. Guluzzy told the Council and Committee that the discussions concerning Hesse Park were now typed in a formal manner. Mr. Zamos stated that when the Committee had looked over the priority list they were appalled at where the Parks and Recreation priorities fell. Mr. Guluzzy told Mr. Zamos that the basic ranking of the priority listing was simply a listing of everything of concern to the City. Councilwoman Shaw told the Committee that in the end the priority rank- ing would be a Council decision. The ranking as the Committee saw it was not necessarily a ranking that would remain firm. Mayor Bacharach explained to the Committee that the ranking was not par of the budget. The Committee told the Council that the community had been deeply in- volved with the park development over the past seven years. The Committee did not feel that they were being emotional over this issue. They were very upset that the park development had suddenly taken a back seat to the new proposed Civic Center. Councilwoman Shaw thought that having a new City Manager on the scene gave a new perspective to the City and that he had provided a valuable service due to the fact that he had not known what had gone on during the last several years and, therefore, could be more objective. Mr. Zamos felt very strongly that the City was taking money away from the Parks and Recreation budget (revenue sharing and excise tax) and using the money for the new city hall. Mayor Bacharach explained to the Committee that city hall space was ..` s`desperately needed. The Council was simply looking into several alternatives for providing this space. The decision on the way this would be.accomplished was still in the discussion stages. PRIORITIES OF PARK DEVELOPMENT (1201) The Council wanted to be updated on the Committee's thoughts concerning Hesse, Pt. Vicente, Del Cerro, Clovercliff, Ladera Linda, Abalone Cove Beach, the school sites, and trails. Mr. Zamos told the Council that the Committee had worked on a master plan for park development which was constantly being reviewed and updated. Hesse Park was No. One on the master plan priority list. Pt. Vicente came into the picture because of grant monies. Ladera Linda was added to the plan because of the School District's desire to sell it to the City. Del Cerro Park was under construction due to community support and the offer by a local resident to help build the park at a very reasonable cost. Miraleste School was not on the master plan but should be added due to the School District's desire to sell that parce Mayor Bacharach asked the Committee if they felt their priorities were still valid. The answer was an emphatic "Yes." Mr. Rosenthal stated that the Portuguese Bend school site was still the very best site the City could have. He realized the School District Y was unwilling to sell it but a long term lease could have many advantages to the City. COUNCIL WORKSHOP -2- JUNE 30, 1981 Mr. Zamos was concerned about the purchase of Ladera Linda. He felt that there was not adequate staff to oversee the numerous buildings involved at the site. Mr. Zamos told the Council that P. V. Park was not good as a sports complex. If the City should consider selling off portions of the park it would not measurably hurt the recreational potential in the community. Mr. Jackson stated that there were three major sports facilities on the Hill -- Portuguese Bend, Hesse, and Pt. Vicente, Phase II. Hesse Park had changed from the original design and was becoming less sports oriented. He strongly felt that Portuguese Bend was the only active sports site. Councilwoman Shaw wanted to know if the needs of the community were still valid today as opposed to several years ago due to declining school enrollment and the population shift to older residents. Mr. Jackson stated that programs for adult recreation would become more and more important as the community became more populated with older citizens. After work and weekend recreation needs were becoming very high on the priority list. The Committee wanted to know the overall position of the City. They felt that land and building use went together. The more land the City had, the more recreational uses could come into being. Buildings added another dimension. The Committee felt that the land was more important than the building at Hesse Park. The Committee also stated that land was more durable. A building could be destroyed if not properly maintained. Land could become overgrown but could be restored. Mayor Bacharach felt that the building at Hesse Park was important due to the senior population. Mr. Zamos suggested that portables could be used at Hesse on an interim basis. Mr. Rosenthal wanted the Council to make some kind of decision per- taining o the park development. Seven years had already been spent g• it money by staying in a holding studies and it was costing the City y y Y g g pattern. Councilwoman Shaw wanted to know if Clovercliff should still be in- cluded S cluded in the park development. Mr. Zamos thought that Hesse and Clovercliff were a unit and should remain that way. Director Law told the Council that the contractor who received the bid on Hesse would consider Clovercliff as part of the package. The up- keep at Clovercliff would be minimal. Mr. Gibson stated that Ladera Linda had not been considered by the Committee with regard to the use of the facilities, community response, or how the building could be put to use. Mr. Zamos asked if Pedregal could be used for City Hall if that site became available. COUNCIL WORKSHOP -3- JUNE 30, 1981 Mr. Rosenthal stated he would be willing to sell Vanderlip if the City could acquire the Portuguese Bend site, either on a lease or purchase. He felt that Pedregal was a bad location. Ladera Linda was not good due to its isolated location. He felt Miraleste Elementary was a good location. He stated that the three best locations for park develop- ment were Hesse, Portuguese Bend and Miraleste. (Councilman Ryan arrived at 8:30 p.m. . The Council then had a quorum.) Mr. Zamos disagreed with Mr. Rosenthal. He thought that Pedregal was desirable. He thought the Miraleste school site was good but he didn't know what use could be made of the buildings. The tennis court at Miraleste was very desirable along with the other recreational aspects. Mr. Gibson stated that the Committee as a body had not looked into Ladera Linda, Pedregal or Miraleste as possible park sites. Mr. Jackson was concerned about programs at Ladera Linda. He felt it would be hard to justify spending money for schools until it was established how the City was going to use them. He also felt that the City needed programs as opposed to facilities. Mayor Bacharach expressed the concern that possibly the City was pick- ing e were available rather than picking up school sites because they if g them up for a specific need of the City. She wondered if the City P already had enough school sites. She suggested that the Committee look into school sites and judge whether buying them would fit into ,.. - - -. the master plan rather than on a one-to-one basis. Councilman Ryan brought up the fact that the City never envisioned so many schools closing on the Peninsula. Mayor Bacharach suggested that the school site issue be kept in as broad a perspective as possible. In the meantime, the Committee and Council should be monitoring the situation. TRAILS AND MAINTENANCE (701) Mayor Bacharach was concerned that the trail concept was losing ground. She reminded the Council that they had been mandated to create trails. It was important to set `rail standards as soon as possible. Mr. Zamos stated that the Committee did not have the resources to deal with the trails. He also thought the issue had been turned over to th Planning Commission. Councilwoman Shaw informed the workshop that a committee had been P together approximately to ether a proximately four years ago which mapped the existing trails. It was then given to the Planning Commission to be used when new developments were opened. The trail issue, however, had become a low priority item due to other pressing business. Director Law told the workshop that another committee had been formed at one time and they had identified primary trails, secondary trails, and rabbit trails. Rough cost estimates had been made by Gary Weber and himself. Mr. Guluzzy stated that Mrs. Hightower was very aware of trails. COUNCIL WORKSHOP -4- JUNE 30, 1981 It was then moved by Councilwoman Shaw, seconded by Councilman Ryan that the City Manager er bring back to the Council what findings had been made concerning trails and trail standards. The motion was unanimously passed. It was then decided that after the information from the City Manager had been studied by the Council it would decide what committee should work on trails. It was the Council's thought that possibly the Parks and Recreation Committee should be the monitor for the trails with the Planning C g ommission reviewing what the Parks and Recreation Committee had recommended. A recess was then called at (9:00 p.m.) When the meeting was brought back to order, Councilman Dyda had arrived.) Mayor Bacharach gave Councilman Dyda a brief summary of what had trans- pired emphasized that everything that was discussed pared previously. She p Y was an either /or situation and was subject to change. HESSE PARK (12 01) Mr. Zamos passed packets out ackets to the Council and told them that with l of Director Law he had divided the construction of the • park the he p • nto phases. He stated that all of the dollar . amounts were estimates i p and projections. The Committee was as strop 1 in favor of building Hesse Park without the construction of the building portion in the first phase. He suggested portables use of ortables which would solve the immediate building needs. Councilman Dyda felt that using portables in the interim would cost more money in the long run than building the building. Mr. Zamos also stated that there could be a cost saving if certain portio of the construction work at Hesse and Pt. Vicente were done together. Director Law informed the Council that he had talked with the archi- tects and two major construction firms regarding Phase I of Hesse with the building din and Phase I of Pt. Vicente. It appeared that there would be a savings on in s grading of approximately 5% if they were done together. g g He also thought ht that hiring a contract manager could save the City money. The question of g • grant money was discussed. Director Law told the Council that the priority he first riorit for grants was a string of parks but that was turned down. He stated that the City would be receiving a grant for Hesse for $144,000. Councilwoman Shaw asked if there were other viable grants for Hesse. Director Law stated that there were some but they were very limited and p extremely competitive. Those particular grants were for operations. COUNCIL WORKSHOP -5- JUNE 30, 1981 Councilman Dyda stated that the City had to be very careful when going out for bid. The contractor who won the bid on Phase I thinking he would get Phase II immediately upon completion of Phase I might try to recoup his money on Phase I if he realized that Phase II would not be started immediately. Phase II money should be quickly authorized and ready to commit. Another cost saving proposed by Mr. Zamos was trying to replant speci- men trees that were going to be chopped down to solve the parkway problem. He thought that possibly 50 -100 trees could be saved and moved over to the park. Councilman Dyda liked the way the Committee had allocated the money. He stressed the difference between authorization and expenditure. He wanted to find out as quickly as possible what the City could stand in the way of expenditures so the park project could be started. It was then moved by Councilman Dyda, seconded by Councilman Ryan that the Council build in an authorization plan which, based on the expenditures, t of phased enditures, will cause the expenditures that P P were P roj ected here to occur (recognizing that the authorizations will be higher) and that the Council p roceed for the current planning and authorize at least Pt. Vicente , Phase I, what is identified as "Hesse top" and "Hesse rest" which is a $3,100,000 authorization but which would actually incur an expenditure of $1,900,000 in Fiscal Year 1981/1982. This motion was passed unanimously as an amendment to the Capital Expenditure Budget. The Mayor praised the Committee on a job well done and Councilman Ryan . congratulated them on their tenaciousness. LADERA LINDA /PORTUGUESE BEND (1401) With regard to Ladera Linda, it was Councilman Dyda's understanding that the Staff was to come back to Council with the cost and what department would be feasible to move to Ladera Linda. Mr. Jackson wanted to know the best way to address the School District with regard to a long term lease at Portuguese Bend. In order to develop the field, he felt that the City had to have more than a year --to -year lease on that site. The Council strongly urged the Committee to send the Council their plans for Portuguese Bend in writing. Councilman Dyda said he would be most pleased to go over a proposal with some facts and dollar numbers relative to the merits of Portugue Bend. ABALONE BEACH (1201) Councilman Dyda stated that a package had been put together and had been given to the County but no response had been received. The tonnage restriction (3 Tons) for vehicles and equipment had been waived so that emergency equipment, lifeguard equipment and fire engines could be used. No heavy grading or construction would be allowed. The drainage had to be improved and the fissures had to be sealed. The County would give support for the lifeguards. COUNCIL WORKSHOP -6- JUNE 30, 1981 Councilwoman Shaw was concerned because the parking lot used for Abalone Cove Beach was virtually empty. Councilman Dyda stated that the City was not going to make money the first year because the beach had a bad reputation. It was important to acquire the beach at the first of the summer season. Councilman Ryan thought the City should take a chance.on the beach if the beach could become a worthwhile recreational vehicle for the City. He stated the beach should be cleaned up, made attractive, and promoted for usage. Mayor Bacharach asked the Council if they wanted the Committee involved in this venture. The response was a unanimous "Yes." Councilwoman Shaw was concerned about the timing regarding the acquisition of the beach. She was afraid it might put a drain on the Parks and Recreation staff and, in particular, Director Law. PARK MAINTENANCE AS A FUNCTION OF PARKS AND RECREATION OR PUBLIC WORKS (12 01) .� The Committee was concerned about the general maintenance person being under the direction of Public Works. When specific duties needed to be done for Parks and Recreation, it was necessary for Director Law to call Public Works and have them release the general . maintenance person to help with Parks and Recreation. Councilman Dyda stated that if the work load at the Parks and Recreation Department justified an additional headcount, he was not opposed to it. Mr. Jackson explained to the Council that a lot of the work that could be done by a person directly reporting to Parks and Recre- ation would free up the Parks and Recreation staff to do more important things. Director Law stated that to do park maintenance properly and on time, a P erson was needed to do that function. Another function of the Parks and Recreation Department was the recreational programs. These two functions worked better under one roof. Councilman Dyda stated that there was a difference between maintaining facilities for programs and maintaining the park as far as sprinklers, electrical repairs, etc., were concerned. However, if the Parks and Recreation Department was talking about a person to maintain the equipment for programs, then he agreed that this person should report to the Parks and Recreation Department. Councilman Ryan agreed that Parks and Recreation should have a maintenance type person. He thought that Public Works could do the bi g jobs -- but it was the day -to -day maintenance that had to be taken care of. Councilwoman Shaw wanted to know what personnel the Parks and Recre- ation Department was using since Art had left. Director Law stated that up until today they had used part -time employees with the money the department had saved. However, that money was gone. COUNCIL WORKSHOP -7- JUNE 30, 1981 Mr. Guluzzy informed the Council that the City was thinking of going under one contract for maintenance work. He, Director Law and Mr. Abbott were looking over the feasibility of doing that. Director Law stated that the department had a $20,000 maintenance budget that was used for contracting various repairs. If heating was needed, he contracted a heating contractor; if a sprinkler needed major repair, he called a sprinkler contractor or did the work himself. Director Law was also concerned about the day-to-day operational maintenance of the grounds. Mayor Bacharach suggested that this item be put on the Council Agenda if further discussion was needed. PENINSULA PARKS AND RECREATION PROGRAM (1201) Director Law discussed the idea of forming a District and stated that the establishment of a district to operate the park system was a budget objective for next year. Mayor Bacharach asked about forming a neighborhood district. Councilman Ryan said it would be difficult to accomplish. Mr. Zamos wanted the Council to know that the Committee had been doing studies on a peninsula -wide basis as well as locally. PRIVATE /COMMERCIAL VENTURES Mr. Zamos stated that the Committee was in a quandry. He told the Council that some people had approached the Committee with a pro- posal osal that wasn't too specific and they were looking fcr direction from the Committee. Mr. Jackson stated that there were problems which the Committee had to solve before making a recommendation to the Council concerning the Private /Commercial venture. CHARTER The matter of the new charter was discussed at length. Mayor Bach- arach informed the Committee that the changes suggested by Council were going to be discussed during the Council Meeting on July 21st, however, she would like to know the Committee's feelings. Mr. 7amos stated that the Committee had great difficulty with the new charter, especially with the word, "Facility ". This word changed the Parks and Recreation Committee from an advisory one to a committee that looked exclusively at facilities and nothing more. Councilwoman Shaw told the Committee that it was the intent of the Council to signal to the committee that they did not think it appro- priate riate for the committee to become involved in an intimate way in the recreational programs. This was a Staff function. She did believe that it was appropriate for the Parks and Recreation Committee to be the ear of the Council and to the community, to be aware of adult requirements, and to make suggestions either to Council or to the Parks and Recreation Department staff about directions. She wanted COUNCIL WORKSHOP -8- JUNE 30, 1981 the Committee to look at the big picture -- changes in direction and trends and commercial facilities. She was afraid that once the parks were built that the Committee would get too involved in the day --to --day activities of the Parks and Recreation Department and get caught in a vacuum. Mr. Jackson felt the wording of the charter was a wrist slapper. He felt it was impossible to look at facilities and come up with plans unless the Committee had a working knowledge of existing programs and future needs. Mr. Rosenthal stated that in the eight years he had been on the Committee he did not remember making any input concerning programming. He had the understanding that. somehow Staff had the notion that the Committee was becoming involved in the programming aspects and had asked Council for help in stopping this action. He stated that the Committee had . tried to get a peninsula -wide community activity underway but none of that was involved in programming, per se. Mayor Bacharach told the Committee that they were wrong in thinking that Staff had complained to Council. The word "Facility" had been added strictly by Council. She would personally be willing to take the word "Facility" out of the charter. Mr. Zamos stated that the Committee was proud of the few suggestions they had made to Staff for programs to consider such as the Girl Scout site which the Committee had suggested, the Staff thought it a good idea and implemented and maintained it. None of the Committee wanted to run programs. The Committee role should be one where they see programs that ought to be introduced to the community. If the Committee got out of line in this area, all the Council had to say was, "No!" Councilman Dyda stated that the word "Facility" was added not as a limitation or a bound but more as a thrust. It was trying to say, "Let's emphasize facilities so we can get something accomplished." P �- � identifying needs and The role of the Committee was to be one of y g from those needs structuring facilities to yet them. There had to be an interrelationship. Councilman Ryan stated that the Council was getting so frustrated they put in the word "Facility" to deemphesize programs at this point in time. Mr. Jackson stated that if the Committee had . not had some limited conversations with Staff, they would not have known about the budget information. Councilwoman Shaw stated that it was not an attempt to stop communi- cation between the Committee and Staff. It was an attempt to get a handle on lots of demands of the Staff. Staff didn't know whose direction to follow -- a committee or Council. Councilman Dyda asked the Committee to come to Council and tell them what kind of staff support they desired. The Council would do what- ever they could to help the Committee with their needs. It was then moved by Councilwoman Shaw, seconded by Councilman Dyda that the word "Facility" be removed from the title and in the body of the charter. This motion was unanimously passes. There bein g no further business, the meeting was adjourned,on motion of Councilman Dyda, seconded by Councilwoman Shaw and carried. COUNCIL WORKSHOP -9- JUNE 30, 1981 DONALD F. GULUZZY, CITY CLERK & EX OFFICIO CLERK OF THE COUNCIL COUNCIL WORKSHOP -10- JUNE 30, 1981