CC MINS 19970529 ADJ MINUTES
RANCHO PALOS VERDES CITY COUNCIL
ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING
MAY 29, 1997
This meeting was called to Order at 7:00 p.m. by Mayor John C. McTaggart at the City
Hall Community Room, 30940 Hawthorne Boulevard. Following the Pledge of
Allegiance, roll call was answered as-follows:
PRESENT: Hollingsworth, Ferraro, Byrd, Lyon, and Mayor McTaggart
ABSENT: None
Also present were: City Manager Paul Bussey; City Attorney Carol Lynch; Planning &
Building, and Code Enforcement Director Carolynn Petru; Principal Planner Joel Rojas;
and, Administrative Services Director/City Clerk Jo Purcell.
PUBLIC COMMENTS:
Hugh Hewitt, representing Kajima Development, addressed the issue of the NCCP
Interim Habitat Loss Permit Process and said that the most recent biological survey
indicated that this two-tenths of an acre is not quality habitat; there are no birds and
there never will be birds as this is not the type of habitat that would support the
gnatcatchers. He requested that there be an expressed rather than an implicit
exemption from the 4(d) process. He noted that the City of San Diego has been given
the authority to make explicit project-by-project exemptions; among them were projects
that had largely already been awarded their grading permit or were so close that it was
considered to be technically awarded. He urged Council to follow the City of San
Diego's example, especially for Kajima where the impact is low and the benefit to the
City s0 great. He expressed the opinion that this will not be a problem with U.S. Fish
and Wildlife since there is a precedent for this type of approach. He noted that such
action would save Kajima an enormous amount of money, headache, and angst, and
would also serve the City well. He emphasized that this is a project encompassing only
two-tenths of an acre.
REGULAR BUSINESS:
NCCP Interim Habitat Loss [4(d)] Permit Process (1203)
Principal Planner Rojas introduced Bill Tippets, California Department of Fish and
Game, and Jeff Newman, U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service.
Principal Planner Rojas presented the staff memorandum of May 29, 1997,
recommending adoption of a resolution approving a Coastal Sage Scrub Interim Habitat
Loss Permit Process, pursuant to the Section 4(d) "Special Rule" of the Federal
Endangered Species Act.
Council discussion focused on the following issues: clarification of the acreage for
Kajima's Seabreeze project; that the NCCP project would ultimately have more and
better habitat than it currently has; imposition of mitigation measures while not
impeding property rights; clarification of replacement acreage and how that would be
credited toward the City's total protected acreage; a system for setting aside reserves
in the future; and, clarification of the amount of acreage included in the permit for
Ocean Trails.
Bob Trapp, representing J.M. Peters Company, 4100 MacArthur Boulevard, Irvine,
advised that they have agreed to a 3:1 replacement program on this project; that he
had no problem giving credit to another builder, if allowable; that there has been only
one or two pair of gnatcatchers sighted on their property since 1992; that this project
would result in "no-take" for gnatcatchers; the reason this project is in the 4(d) process
is because the developer was not willing to spend the time and effort to fight the
Service on the no-take; that the intent of the procedure was to allow those developers
with discretionary approvals to move ahead during the interim NCCP preparation
period; and, urged Council to adopt the resolution before it this evening.
At the request of Council, Mr. Hewitt related his negotiations with U.S. Fish and
Wildlife. He confirmed that a no-take would result from the development on the
Seabreeze project. Because there are no birds at the site, Mr. Hewitt said that he
advised the Service that the developer would be going forward with this project. At that
point the Service asked them not to go forward; he has asked about mitigation
measures and has received no reply from the Service. He then noted the following:
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when the City purchased the Diamond Bros. property it contained a lot of coastal sage
scrub and this was, on a proportionate basis, a larger habitat contribution than has
been made by any jurisdiction in Southern California relating to the gnatcatcher; Kajima
has a 2:1 revegetation plan, all permits, and everything required by the Federal
government, except that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is disappointed that more
has not been done; the developer is also preserving a permanent open space of 7.5
acres of local sage scrub, which will not be disturbed.
Staff referenced copies of permits received from the developer and asked for
clarification relating to drainage issues; in reviewing the map associated with the
permit, it did not seem to include the .2 acres of coastal sage scrub. Mr. Hewitt clarified
that this is included in the 1603 permit, which speaks to the revegetation that is
required as a result of alterations to the blue line stream; this mitigation can
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May 29, 1997
Page 2
compensate for the loss of the .2 acres. He advised that this is standard mitigation on
all Section 7 and 1603 permits; it is not necessary to have a separate plan. Provided
that there is coastal sage scrub within it, as in this site, it will serve both purposes.
There is, however, no independent mitigation requirement imposed as a result of the
Federal Endangered Species Act or the California Endangered Species Act because
there are no impacted species; therefore, no revegetation plan has been produced
pursuant to those requirements.
Council asked questions of the representatives of the Service regarding this process.
An explanation was given that the 4(d) process is an interim process until jurisdictions
develop an actual plan, which will then determine how much coastal sage scrub can be
taken (developed). The best advice from scientists was that a 5% loss in the short term
would be acceptable as long as that 5% loss was mitigated; when the final plans are
developed the total amount taken will be known. It has been found that in every area
where there were approved plans or nearly approved plans, the amount of take of
coastal sage scrub will be much larger than 5%; the amount taken during the interim
period will be credited to the final plan; it is a key piece in the peninsula for any final
plan that is developed; this does not alter the fact that there is only so much sage scrub
in existence.
Council asked a question about mitigation measures and the re-vegetation growth
period. The representatives from the Service advised that it takes approximately four
to five years for the habitat to reach a state where it become functional coastal sage
scrub; in the interim period of 18 months the revegetated habitat will not have reached
a sufficient level to be considered equivalent to functional habitat and therefore does
not add to the base.
Council expressed concern with property rights of individuals during the interim and a
suggestion was made that a bond be used to guarantee that the mitigation will take
place. The representatives noted that the bond and the guarantee is part of the normal
mitigation package and pointed out that money cannot always fix the problem of having
less viable habitat for the gnatcatchers and other species that the Service is trying to
protect.
Council expressed concern that the NCCP will actually take longer than the expected
18 months due to.unanticipated criteria. The following was noted: no problems are
anticipated; the City has the advantage of utilizing information from other agencies
providing the ability to move the process along rather quickly.
Staff noted that this discussion revolved around a .2 acre parcel and a developer who
is willing to mitigate and asked why there is a conflict. The representatives from the
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May 29, 1997
Page 3
Services explained that the City needs a process, even for such a small parcel; it was
their belief that the Seabreeze property was actually occupied and did support
gnatcatchers but had the potential for two other species. Attempts had been made to
schedule another meeting with the developer, but they have not wanted to do so and
the entities have been at odds ever since. They concurred that this really should be a
simple process if all the information being discussed is accurate.
Council asked how many people are involved in the review process at the U.S. Fish
and Wildlife Service. The representative noted that there is usually one biologist.
Based on this, Council asked if the stumbling block was with management rather than
at the scientific level or if there are problems with the applications received. The
representative indicated that biological issues generally take the longest time.
Council asked for clarification of other species under the 4(d) permit. Clarification was
given that the other species do not affect the 4(d) permit; the 4(d) permit will not be
held up if there are no gnatcatchers; other species must be addressed through 10(a)
process; it is unknown if there are connectivity issues on the project site.
Council noted that there is a development seaward of the project'ect and also a
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project toward Los Angeles and asked how this two-tenths of an acre could be
significant to connectivity if there is no open connection. It was explained that the
project is connected to the other developments by a canyon and there are gnatcatchers
in the canyon and up toward the project; therefore, it is one contiguous area.
The representatives acknowledged that Council would like this issue resolved as soon
as possible and said that efforts will be made toward this end.
It was noted that there is a small misinterpretation of the letter of February 2nd; all
losses under the interim process get counted toward the five percent, even on projects
which are exempt. It is essential that the total amount of sage scrub lost during the
interim period be known. It was recommended that page 2, the last sentence of the
second paragraph of Section A(1) of the staff proposed Interim Habitat Loss Permit
Process be revised to read: "Regardless of whether or not the 5% level is reached,
coastal sage scrub shall be counted toward the 5% loss allocation." The representative
noted that property lost to natural phenomena is not removed from the base calculation,
nor are fire breaks. Routine practice such as cleaning out brush, would not be subject
to the 4(d) process, nor would action taken to due to imminent health and safety
concerns.
Staff explained the landslide process and how mitigation measures are taken by the
City. The Service representative advised that he will take this issue back to
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May 29, 1997
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management for a policy decision. Staff requested that a meeting be held between the
agency and the City before a decision to provide adequate information on which to
make a decision.
Reference was made to page 2, Section A(2)(b) relating to the landslide issue and the
Service representative advised that it may be possible to rewrite this to possibly allow
for certain activities, if management agrees. Staff noted that this is the largest
landslide in the Continental U.S. and it has unique features and has caused legal and
financial difficulties for the City. It is felt that the effort cannot continue with the
imposition of this process. The representative conveyed his understanding and noted
that some of these issues are fairly new.
Council noted that the City's problems should be sufficiently explained and it should be
understood that the City may need to take certain measures and destroy habitat not
because it wants to but because it has no choice and this should not be counted
against people with property rights and an investment where tract maps have already
been approved.
Suggestions were made as follows: the items listed on the Interim Coastal Sage Scrub
Loss - Rancho Palos Verdes chart be listed differently on the chart to show what
habitat losses are taken but not counted due to public safety projects; note that the
City fully intends to compensate for habitat losses through mitigation measures; add
explanatory language into the body of the document relating to the previous
suggestion; add habitat losses that occur due to natural events, e.g., landslides, to the
list of exemptions.
The representative for the Seabreeze development noted the following: clarified that
they want to present a plan to the City for approval and not to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service; if the parcel is indeed occupied or used by the gnatcatcher and is graded
anyway, there will be legal repercussions; if this issue is returned to the Service, there
.will be endless rounds of delays; that the Pacific pocket mouse is not an issue in this
area; that if a survey requirement is imposed it will delay this project until next year; and
requested to be exempted and have the City taken out of the process, subject to staffs
review of the revegetation and grading plans.
Staff suggested that this item be continued to Tuesday, June 3rd.
It was emphasized that if a finding can be made that the parcel is unoccupied it would
then meet the criteria for 4(d) exemption.
Mr. Trapp requested to return on Tuesday also. He noted that his parcel has been
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May 29, 1997
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surveyed and there are no gnatcatchers on the site, nor are there any Pacific pocket
mice. He advised that he has had meetings with the Service and differences have
been resolved and he is now waiting for the 4(d) process to be adopted by the City.
Councilwoman Lyon moved, seconded by Mayor Pro Tem Ferraro, to continue this
item. Motion carried.
RECESS and RECONVENE: At 8:30 p.m., Mayor McTaggart declared a recess. The
meeting reconvened at 8:35 p.m.
FY 1997-98 Budget Review (602)
Discussion was initiated relating to the 1997-98 Fiscal Year budget.
Council discussion focused on the proposed 5% salary increase and cost-saving
measures.
ADJOURNMENT: The meeting was adjourned at 8:45 p.m.
Mayo
ATTEST:
City Clerk
Minutes
May 29, 1997
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