CC MINS 20011016MINUTES
RANCHO PALOS VERDES CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 16, 2001
The meeting was called to order at 6:30 P.M. by Mayor Lyon at Fred Hesse Community
Park, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard and was immediately recessed to a closed session
per the Brown Act Checklist. At 7:10 P.M. the meeting reconvened
After the Pledge of Allegiance by Paige Anderson, Laurel Ast, Guilliana Battaglia, Ellie
D'Ambra, Marie Delcarson, Taylor Gilbertson, Celia Herreros, Riley Hoffman, Kaitlin
Murray, Taylor Raymond, Page Tripp, and Chloe Urbanczyk of Brownie Troop 108, roll
call was answered as follows:
PRESENT: Ferraro, Gardiner, McTaggart, Stern, and Mayor Lyon
ABSENT: None
Also present were City Manager Les Evans; Assistant City Manager Carolynn Petru;
City Attorney Carol Lynch; Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Joel
Rojas; Director of Public Works Dean Allison; Director of Finance Dennis McLean;
Deputy Planning Director Greg Pfost; City Clerk/Administrative Services Director Jo
Purcell; and, Deputy City Clerk/Recording Secretary Jackie Drasco.
RECYCLING DRAWING:
The winner from the last drawing was Marjorie Stouffer, who will receive a check for
$250, which represents a year of free refuse service. Another card was selected.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
Mayor Lyon requested that the item regarding the Review of Ocean Trails' Water
Control Plan be heard first under Regular Business. Councilmember Gardiner
suggested that, because of the large number of speakers present, the item regarding
Long Point Land Use be the second Regular Business item.
Councilman Stern moved, seconded by Councilwoman Ferraro, to approve the agenda,
as amended. Motion carried.
APPROVAL OF CONSENT CALENDAR:
Councilman Stern moved, seconded by Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart, to approve the
Consent Calendar as follows:
Motion to waive full reading
Adopted a motion to waive reading in full of all ordinances presented at this meeting
with consent of the waiver of reading deemed to be given by all councilmembers after
the reading of the title.
Minutes of September 4, 2001 (301)
Approved the Minutes.
Ordinance No. 370 - Amendment of Municipal Code -Golf Tax (1103 x 1501)
ADOPTED ORDINANCE NO. 3707 AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
PALOS VERDES AMENDING CERTAIN PORTIONS OF THE RANCHO PALOS
VERDES MUNICIPAL CODE REGARDING THE CITY'S GOLF TAX. (This ordinance
was re- introduced at the October 2nd Meeting.)
Resol. No. 2001 -82 - Funding Appropriation For Solid Waste Activities (1204 x
602 x 1301)
ADOPTED RESOLUTION NO. 2001 -82, AMENDING RESOLUTION NO. 2001 -43,
THE BUDGET APPROPRIATION FOR FISCAL YEAR 2001 -2002, TO INCREASE
BUDGETED APPROPRIATIONS IN THE SOLID WASTE FUND TO FUND VARIOUS
RECYCLING AND NPDES ACTIVITIES.
Approve Agreement For Electronics Recycling Day (1204x 1301)
(1) Authorized the Mayor and City Clerk to sign an agreement with SoCal Computer
Recyclers for an Electronics /Computer recycling event.
Resol. No. 2001 -83 - Memorandum of Understanding Between the Cities of
Lomita, Lakewood, Rancho Palos Verdes, Redondo Beach and Torrance, and
Food Finders, A Non - Profit Organization and Approve Budget Adjustments (1204
x 1301 x 602)
(1) Authorized the Mayor and the City Clerk to sign a Memorandum of Understanding
(MOU) between the Cities of Lomita, Lakewood, Rancho Palos Verdes, Redondo
Beach and Torrance, and Food Finders, a non - profit organization, relative to the
administration and management of a Reuse Assistance Grant that was previously
approved by the California Integrated Waste Management Board (CIWMB). (2)
ADOPTED RESOLUTION NO. 2001 -83, AMENDING RESOLUTION 2001 -43, THE
BUDGET APPROPRIATION FOR FY 2001 -20021 TO INCREASE BUDGETED
APPROPRIATIONS IN THE SOLID WASTE FUND TO FUND THE GRANT'S
REQUIRED MATCH.
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 2
Resol. No. 2001 -84 - Arterial Rehabilitation Program: Crenshaw and Hawthorne
Boulevard (1204 x 1404)
(1) ADOPTED RESOLUTION NO. 2001 -841 A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL
OF THE CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES, AMENDING RESOLUTION 2001 -43,
THE BUDGET APPROPRIATION FOR FISCAL YEAR 2001 -2002, FOR A BUDGET
ADJUSTMENT TO THE CITY'S CAPITAL PROJECTS FUND.
Acquisition of Vehicle For The Department Of Public Works (1204)
(1) Authorized the Department of Public Works to purchase a new vehicle. (2)
Authorized the Mayor and the City Clerk to enter into a purchase agreement with
Golden State Truck Center, in the amount of $20,250.08.
Resol. No. 2001 -85 - Watershed, Wildlife and Parks Improvement Bond Act of
2000, Urban and Community Forestry Grant Program (1204 x 1201)
(1) Authorized staff to apply for a grant from the Watershed, Wildlife and Parks
Improvement Bond Act of 2000 Urban and Community Forestry Program. (2)
ADOPTED RESOLUTION NO. 2001 -851 A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF
THE CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES AUTHORIZING THE DIRECTOR OF
PUBLIC WORKS TO EXECUTE ANY AGREEMENTS AND REQUESTS FOR
PAYMENT.
Resol. No. 2001 -86 -Trees For The Millennium Grant (1204 x 1201)
(1) Authorized the expenditure of up to $80,000 (in street and landscape maintenance)
to purchase and install new trees within the City's parks and public rights -of -way. (2)
ADOPTED RESOLUTION NO. 2001 -86, A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF
THE CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES, AMENDING RESOLUTION 2001 -43, THE
BUDGET APPROPRIATION FOR FISCAL YEAR 2001 -2002, FROM THE CITY'S GAS
TAX FUND.
Contract Addendum No. 4 For The Long Point Resort Hotel /Golf Course
Environmental Impact Report (1203 x 1201 x 1804)
Approved Contract Addendum No. 4 to the Agreement for Consulting Services between
the City of Rancho Palos Verdes and Robert Bein, William Frost &Associates (RBF) for
preparation of the Long Point Resort Hotel /Golf Course Environmental Impact Report,
in the amount of $138,689.
Abalone Cove Landslide Abatement District— Appointment of Board Member
(306 x 1900)
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 3
Appointed Emily Vaughan to serve on the Abalone Cove Landslide Abatement District
Board of Directors until November 2003.
Resol. No. 2001 -87 - California Integrated Waste Management Board Grant
Applications (1204 x 602 x 1301)
(1) Authorized the Director of Public Works to submit a grant application to the
California Integrated Waste Management Board for funding assistance to install a
rubberized surface at the East View Park Playground area. (2) ADOPTED
RESOLUTION NO. 2001 -87, AUTHORIZING THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS
TO EXECUTE ANY AGREEMENTS AND REQUESTS FOR PAYMENTS
ASSOCIATED WITH THE PROCESSING AND ACCEPTANCE OF THESE GRANTS.
Resol. No. 2001 -88 - Park Playground Accessibility and Recycling Grant Program
(1) Authorized staff to submit a grant application to the California Integrated Waste
Management Board for the upgrade of play equipment at Abalone Cove. (2)
ADOPTED RESOLUTION NO. 2001 -88, A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF
THE CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER TO
EXECUTE ANY AGREEMENTS AND REQUESTS FOR PAYMENTS ASSOCIATED
WITH THE PROCESSING AND ACCEPTANCE OF THIS GRANT.
Resol. No. 2001 -89 - Register of Demands (602)
ADOPTED RESOLUTION NO. 2001 -89, A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF
THE CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES ALLOWING CERTAIN CLAIMS AND
DEMANDS AND SPECIFYING FUNDS FROM WHICH THE SAME ARE TO BE PAID.
# # # # # # # # # # # #
PUBLIC HEARING:
Tentative Tract Map No. 53305, Conditional Use Permit No. 228, Grading Permit
No. 2242 and Environmental Assessment No. 738 (Applicant: JCC Homes, Inc.,
Landowner: California Water Service Company, 5837 Crest Road) (1203 x 1804)
Mayor Lyon opened the public hearing on this request to consider Tentative Tract Map
No. 53305, Conditional Use Permit No. 228, Grading Permit No. 2242 and
Environmental Assessment No. 738. City Clerk Purcell announced that notice had
been duly published and that there were no written comments received by the City.
Staff recommendation was to table this matter until the Planning Commission has
completed its review of the revised project proposal.
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 4
Councilman Stern moved, seconded by Councilwoman Ferraro to adopt staff
recommendation to table the item. Motion carried
Continued 6 -Month Review of Conditional Large Domestic Animal Permit No. 2
(Applicant: Roger Grove, "Ride -To -Fly ", 50 Narcissa Drive) (1203 x 1804)
Mayor Lyon opened the public hearing on this request to consider the continued 6-
Month Review of Conditional Large Domestic Animal Permit No. 2. City Clerk Purcell
announced that notice had been duly published and that there were no written
comments received by the City.
Associate Planner Schonborn presented the staff report of October 16, 2001 and the
recommendation to determine that the "Ride -to -Fly" therapeutic riding program is
operating in compliance with the conditions of approval for Conditional Large Domestic
Animal Permit No. 2, and receive and file this report.
Councilman Stern asked if the City had received proof of the organization's non -profit
status and if the soft paving issue had been resolved.
Associate Planner Schonborn said that the proof of non - profit status had been received
on October 15 and that the soft paving had just been completed.
Roger Grove, 4923 Halison Street, Torrance, reported that the work had been
accomplished to modify the property to the City's requested standards, and as more
funds and materials are available, additional improvements will be completed. He
thanked the Council for their patience and understanding in supporting Ride -to -Fly's
goal to operate a therapeutic operation and to be a good neighbor.
There being no response to the Mayor's call for public testimony, she closed the public
hearing.
Councilwoman Ferraro moved, seconded by Councilman Stern, to adopt staff
recommendation. Motion carried.
REGULAR BUSINESS:
Ocean Trails — Review of Water Control Plan Ocean Trails — Review of Water
Control Plan (1203 x 1411)
Deputy Planning Director Pfost presented the staff report of October 16, 2001 and the
recommendation to approve the Ocean Trails' Interim Operations and Maintenance
Manual for Water Control, Groundwater Monitoring, and Ground Movement Monitoring
Facilities.
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 5
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart noted that there was no water - monitoring program for the
residential portion of the project and that there was no clay cap under residential area.
Mayor Lyon added that there was also no clay cap under the habitat area.
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart felt that the lack of a clay cap under the habitat area would
not be a problem, however, he was concerned that without a formal residential water -
monitoring plan, homeowners would not comply with restrictions merely mentioned in
the CC &R's.
Deputy Planning Director Pfost indicated that the plan does include irrigation restrictions
with which each homeowner would have to comply. He said that the monitoring would
be different for each individual lot and that there would be inclinometers and wells
downslope but not on every lot.
Mayor Lyon was concerned also because there had been problems in other areas from
uphill water coming downhill which appeared later, such as water from the City of
Rolling Hills.
Councilman Stern asked if each lot was required to submit a landscaping plan to be
approved by the City.
Deputy Planning Director Pfost replied that this was a requirement and there would be
stricter irrigation standards than in other parts of the City.
Councilman Stern inquired if the City had the ability to ask the developers to look at
alternatives to the plan submitted.
Deputy Planning Director Pfost responded that currently the plan was in compliance
with Chapter 15 of the Municipal Code but restrictions do not normally apply to single -
family residences. He said that additional language regarding irrigation methodology
could be added.
Mayor Lyon described a scenario in which the Zuckermans may no longer own Ocean
Trails or residence ownership might be separate from the golf course. Therefore, she
felt it would be more prudent to have two separate plans, one for the golf course and
one for the residences.
City Attorney Lynch felt that changes should be made now while the item is being
discussed.
City Manager Evans asked if there would be regular inspections and about the
accuracy of the probes.
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 6
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart wondered who would pay for operation and maintenance
costs.
City Manager Evans replied that the City would have to pay.
Mayor Lyon inquired if the golf course plan could be approved and the residential plan
approved later.
City Attorney Lynch advised that it would be better to bring the item back later, but with
two separate plans.
Mayor Lyon asked staff if it would be a problem to delay approval of the golf course
plan.
Director Rojas said there would be no problem
Ken Zuckerman, One Ocean Trails Drive, came to the podium and informed the Council
that some of his key people who were involved in designing and implementing the water
control plan were present, including the project geologist and the golf course
superintendent.
Mark Schluter, project geologist for Ocean Trails, One Ocean Trails Drive, explained
that the residential lots did not have the same black adobe cap beneath but they did
have clay soil that would create a low permeability barrier, although the permeability
was not as low as the black adobe. He shared concerns about the possibility of
homeowners overwatering and indicated that there was an extensive water control
section in the residential plan, which included information on roof gutters, drains, and
water control devices. He agreed that long term enforcement could be a problem as
could leaky irrigation lines but he said they would do everything possible to implement a
water control plan for the homes.
Mayor Lyon was concerned not about the water which could be seen but water below
the bentonite layer.
Mark Schluter responded that the natural water table was 110 feet below the surface
and it could not be monitored, however, water would be monitored in the golf course
area, downslope of the residential areas.
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart thought it was more important to measure water at higher
elevations.
Mark Schluter emphasized that they were monitoring three wells, at different levels, and
there was no water in the upper well.
Mayor Lyon reiterated that the Council had concerns that once the residential units
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 7
were sold and a City- approved landscape plan implemented, it would be difficult to
monitor the water and she wondered what would trigger a problem and how would
enforcement be funded.
Barbara Dye, 29743 Knoll View Drive, representing Ocean Trails, replied that she had
put together the monitoring report and said that golf course as well as residential areas
would be monitored regularly and there were forms to be completed quarterly by the
golf course supervisor.
Councilwoman Ferraro asked the remedy to enforce compliance if a homeowner waters
excessively.
Barbara Dye said that Ocean Trails had established no remedy beyond CC &R's and
that the City Council needed to make the decision.
Mayor Lyon noted that the city had the ability to turn off the water.
Barbara Dye agreed that the City had this power to place restrictions on homeowners
and it was difficult for Ocean Trails to plan ahead since all the residential construction
would be custom. She repeated that the CC &R's discussed the importance of water
control.
Councilman Stern understood that Ocean Trails was building basins for runoff if
someone leaves the water running.
City Manager Evans confirmed that runoff would go into a gutter and be handled but
there still was a concern about water soaking into the ground. He suggested that the
Council could also add additional language to require that a homeowner periodically -
the frequency to be determined by Council - to arrange for an inspection and
certification (at the homeowner's expense) that the irrigation system is operating
correctly as originally approved. He believed that this requirement could be included as
a covenant for each property to authorize the City's enforcement.
Councilman Stern suggested that staff bring back suggested language.
Councilmember Gardiner described a visit he and Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart had
made to Ocean Trails to look at the elaborate computer - driven water control system.
He had questions regarding Table 2.4 on circle page 5 and suggesting that the
triggering words become triggering numbers to clarify enforcement.
Mark Schluter, the Ocean Trails geologist said that this could be changed.
Councilmember Gardiner also suggested that someone outside the system check
occasionally in the event there was something amiss. He noted that the data was to be
maintained by Ocean Trails and, because of his knowledge of information security, he
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 8
felt there was a high probability that the data could be corrupted, destroyed, lost, etc.,
and he felt it was important for the City to keep a backup copy of the data.
Councilman Stern asked what medium was being used to store data and could it be put
on a CD and delivered to City Hall.
Barbara Dye indicated that the City would be furnished a hard copy of the information
quarterly but that the information could be furnished on disks also. She stressed that
the quarterly reports would be reviewed by the City geologist and the peer review group,
which constituted double independent review.
Councilmember Gardiner felt that machine - readable form of the report would be good
and he emphasized the importance of an effective long -term system of maintaining data
which would provide not only efficient storage but also efficient retrieval.
Mayor Lyon said that the staff report asked if the Council would like to review future
revisions and she thought that it would.
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart asked City Attorney Lynch if she felt strongly that the
references to residential units be removed from this document.
City Attorney Lynch replied that the document should be divided into two separate
sections so that the homeowners would not be confused about requirements which did
not apply to them.
Mayor Lyon confirmed that the item would be brought to the Council at a later date with
suggestions and additional language from staff.
Long Point Land Use (1101 x 1203 x 1201)
City Manager Evans presented the staff report of October 16, 2001 and the
recommendation to consider directing the Long Point Developer to minimize the use of
the Upper Point Vicente property by placing more golf holes on the Long Point property
through elimination of the villas.
City Manager Evans added that the Department of Fish and Game would prefer open
space and no golf or other use on city land but said that if the Long Point project
required golf holes on Upper Point Vicente Park, the City Hall property, that two golf
holes might be acceptable.
City Manager Evans said that the decision before the Council this evening was to
decide if the Long Point developer should eliminate the villas to allow more golf holes
on their private property. He stressed that the Council would not want to give the
impression that the City would necessarily approve two golf holes on City property if the
villas were eliminated.
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 9
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart asked who brought this issue before the Council.
City Manager Evans said that it was the Long Point ad hoc subcommittee of Mayor
Lyon and Councilman Stern.
Mayor Lyon clarified that their subcommittee had been looking for a direction since the
meeting of the negotiating team and the possibility of deleting the villas from the Long
Point plan seemed like a good place to begin.
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart said that he had been opposed to the villas from the
beginning as well as the number of casitas proposed. He suggested that the speakers
be heard before Council discussion.
Speaking to the recommendation were: Gloria Anderson, 6818 Los Verdes; Marianne
Hunter, 1 Cinnamon Lane; Roger Mills, 3603 Vigilance Drive; Barbara Gleghorn, 28850
Crestridge Road; Ann Shaw, 30036 Via Borica; Alida White, 32614 Coastsite Drive;
George Gleghorn, 28850 Crestridge Road; Alice Slater, 4219 Dauntless Drive; Robert
King, 30764 Via La Cresta; Joseph Picarelli, 30311 Via Borica;
Rowland Driskell, 30 Via Capri; Elisabeth Ryan, 3224 Barkentine Road; Gerlinde Ryan,
3224 Barkentine Road; Holly Cain, 52 Avenida Corona; Jill Carlton, 4254 Palos Verdes
Drive South; Lennee Bilski, 4255 Palos Verdes Drive South; and, Craig Mueller, 3559
Seaglen Drive.
These speakers focused on the following concerns: In light of the current economic
downturn, a partnership between a developer and the City could be risky to the City's
financial stability; because the City is attempting to obtain funds for which there is great
competition to purchase open space in Portuguese Bend, allowing the use of City land
by a developer weakens the City's commitment to preserve open space; even two holes
is too many because City land should not be used at all; SOC II presented an alternate
proposition for the use of Upper Point Vicente Park and a petition with 3,200 signatures
urging the City to preserve the parkland for public use; the Federal government deed
the land to the City with restrictions which would not allow golf; just because Upper
Point Vicente Park is undeveloped does not mean that it is useless land; there was an
objection to public land being made available to a few people; irrigation water could
cause problems for residents downslope as has happened at Villa Capri from Los
Verdes Golf Course; many Councilmembers campaigned on open space preservation
and should live up to this promise; golf courses are not open space but artificial green
space; it was felt that the developer wanted this land adjacent to City Hall because of
the magnificent view but this view should be enjoyed by the general public; once the
public land was given up, it could not be reclaimed; appreciation was expressed to the
subcommittee for bringing this issue to the entire Council and to the Council for the
preservation of the Forrestal, Barkentine and Shoreline properties; and, the 1975
General Plan set forth a plan to provide a large community facility at the Civic Center
and encouraged community recreational areas and playing fields on City land.
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 10
Michael Mohler, representing Destination Development Corporation, 11777 San Vicente
Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90049, felt that although Bill Tippets had been designated as
negotiator, he did not give the final word for the Department of Fish and Game. He said
that he wanted to work with the City regarding the possibility of removing the villas from
the project. He explained that a number of golf layouts had been analyzed, both on
Long Point property and on City property and he described the extraordinary
contribution the developer had made to the habitat, the NCCP process, and a survey of
the gnatcatcher which was accepted and verified by the Department of Fish and Game.
He also discussed the revegetation plan submitted to increase coastal sage scrub on
City property. He looked forward to the Council meeting on November 7 at which their
group could provide additional details regarding the Planning Commission hearings and
the background of how the plans have developed. Mr. Mohler said that Bill Tippets had
upped the ante at a Planning Commission meeting and his supervisor did not back him
up and called him to task. He urged the Council to consider all factors and to work with
the developer to attain a common beneficial goal.
Councilman Stern remarked that there was not a commitment for $20 million from the
state and that there was no written proposal for the verbal commitment from the
developer for the use of City land.
Mike Mohler replied that this step would not be taken until the Council had reached a
decision regarding the use of City land.
Councilman Stern said that the developer had stated in advertisements that the project
would general $4.5 million for the City and that he assumed this income was based on
certain room rates and occupancy estimates. He guessed that the recent economic
downturn would reduce this benefit to the City.
Mike Mohler agreed and said the Finance Advisory Committee had anticipated this and
asked for abreak -even number of approximately $2.5 million assuming the hotel could
remain open.
RECESS & RECONVENE:
At 8:42 P.M., Mayor Lyon declared a recess. The meeting reconvened at 8:55 P.M.
Director McLean left the meeting during the recess.
Mayor Lyon asked Mike Mohler to return to the podium
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart asked if a smaller hotel had been considered, which could
be expanded if successful.
Mike Mohler said that a smaller megastructure had not been considered, but the
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 11
construction of the casitas was planned in phases.
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart said that because of the downturn in the economy, the size
of the hotel, and operation costs, the break -even point requires higher residency rates
and he was concerned about a plan which used City land. He asked for more
information about Mr. Tippets' supervisor being unhappy about his testimony
Mike Mohler that Mr. Tippets and his supervisor did not agree about what was on the
table.
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart felt that U.S. Fish and Wildlife was more tied to the Civic
Center property than State Fish and Game but the two groups did have to work
together.
Mike Mohler explained that they were in the room together but Bill Tippets had been
nominated as negotiator and he said that he had the feeling that Karen Evans of U.S.
Fish and Wildlife was trying to get another hole on the property. He reminded the
Council that the Ocean Trails Conservation Plan did not work until there were economic
features such as endowments and bonds and then the agencies began to be more
reasonable and willing to compromise. He knew that the City Council was well aware
of the game of negotiating big deals. Mr. Mohler pointed out the benefits of a large
hotel in the City for banquet and meeting space for City, community, and private events
instead of importing the business out of the City. He drew a comparison between the
size of the hotel and economics and the scaling down of the hotel would have
unfortunate circumstances.
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart hoped there would be full presentation before the Council at
the November 7 meeting.
Mike Mohler stated that he learned that this issue was on the agenda tonight only a few
days earlier so was not prepared at this time and said there was information beyond his
scope, such as legal matters, but he assured the Council that the senior executives at
Destination Development were preparing for the November 7 Council meeting and the
Council's direction tonight would help them prepare.
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart asked if elimination of the villas would kill the project.
Mike Mohler said that he did not know and said that finances determine everything. He
stated that the City's Finance Advisory Committee had discussed the internal rate of
return tied to the villas and that Rob Lowe could explain more fully on November 7.
Councilman Stern raised the issue mentioned in the Palos Verdes Peninsula News
regarding a cooperative venture with Ocean Trails and he asked Mr. Mohler to
enlighten the Council.
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 12
Mike Mohler said that this was brought up at the Planning Commission meetings and
about a week ago, they were successful in taking steps to provide an opportunity to
look at the underwriting which can be accomplished and that the affiliate is involved in
due diligence. He expected that because of contact today with the Daily Breeze that
there would more information published and said that he would keep the Council
posted.
Councilman Stern recalled Planning Commission meetings that he watched and the
vote of 4 -3 which indicated that three of the Commissioners did not want to use land.
He saw a natural synergy between Long Point and Ocean Trails and seems to be
hearing that there is significant movement that might be tying these two together in
some economic connection with the world -class golf course just down street.
Mike Mohler replied that at the April 24, 2001 Planning Commission meeting the
synergy between properties was mentioned. It seemed natural that when Ocean Trails
once again has 18 holes, people playing golf there would be looking for lodging and the
hotel at Long Point could send them business as well. He said there has always been
an express desire for an alliance whether it is simply the purchase of tee times,
assisting them our of bankruptcy, all the way to dual ownership and that all these
possibilities had been discussed at public meetings. He was not sure how things would
go but the Destination Development marketing group would summarize for the Council.
Mr. Mohler emphasized the need for an onsite amenity to ensure success of the hotel
and the suggestion of a spa would not be sufficient.
Councilman Stern said that a world -class golf academy had been mentioned as an
onsite amenity and he asked if this combined with a 9 -hole golf course would provide
an acceptable onsite amenity.
Mike Mohler said that the 9 -hole golf course would appeal to groups who have limited
time. And for people who want to use the golf school.
Councilwoman Ferraro inquired if several different specifications could be presented at
the November 7 meeting, with or without the villas or with fewer villas.
Mike Mohler said there would be analysis of economic impact of all these possibilities.
Councilwoman Ferraro asked if the Lowes would be there.
Mike Mohler said at least one of them would be, along with a strong showing of the
executive corps.
Councilmember Gardiner disclosed that he had spoken with everyone in the spectrum,
including SOC II people, other residents, Mike Mohler, and Rob Lowe. He felt that the
goals statement, the City's General plan and signatures of 3,200 citizens meant that the
City should wish Long Point good luck in placing their project on your property, not the
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 13
City's. However, he was willing as a member of the City Council to do whatever
possible to make the Long Point project successful and to improve the internal rate of
return and pointed out that usually there was a negative cash flow in the early stages of
construction and maybe the City could ease that burden. He urged the Long Point
developers to be as creative as they want on their own property and he felt it would be
advantageous for the City to facilitate a win -win between Long Point and Ocean Trails.
He thought that a 9 -hole pitch and putt golf course to practice the short game along with
an academy with an 18 -hole course nearby would be desirable along with any other
cooperative ventures between the two groups. Councilmember Gardiner felt it was the
job of the Council to define the "box" and that the City would help Long Point be
successful in that box, to eliminate false starts and to avoid sending ambiguous signals.
Councilmember Gardiner moved to allow no golf holes on City property and felt that
appropriate assistance from the City, other than providing City land, would help this
successful group who has an excellent reputation and who had built good properties.
Councilman Stern agreed with Councilmember Gardiner's suggestion and felt that
allowing no use of City land but working with the developer to build a successful project
on private property would be good for the City. He wondered if a funding mechanism
such as non - recourse municipal bonds would be helpful.
City Attorney Lynch opined that the most viable alternative would be a Redevelopment
Plan and said she would investigate new findings under State law which might apply
because the land had been vacant for many years.
Councilman Stern agreed that this type of path might change finance rates dramatically
and should be investigated to allow maximum creativity for the developer.
Mayor Lyon said that she and Councilman Stern had put this item on the agenda to ask
for direction from the Council regarding Long Point and to further negotiations in the
goal to establish the Portuguese Bend Nature Preserve because the two were tied
together.
Councilmember Gardiner gathered that Bill Tippets had said that no golf holes on City
property was preferable but two holes might work.
Mayor Lyon suggested the possibility of a connection with the NCCP.
City Manager Evans read from the staff report the section which indicated Mr. Tippet's
preference.
Councilmember Gardiner recalled that Mr. Tippets had preferred no golf holes on City
property.
City Manager Evans said that he had indicated that in the past.
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 14
Director Rojas said that Bill Tippets had expressed that at the negotiation meeting.
Councilman Stern gave his viewpoint that it would be best to use no City land for golf.
Mayor Lyon stated that the Council had never been fond of the villas and she looked
forward to the Council hearing the plan on November 7.
Councilman Stern said that it was important that Mike Mohler knew that the Council was
not enamored with rooflines along Palos Verdes Drive South.
Councilwoman Ferraro felt the Council agreed on this. She asked Mayor Pro Tern
McTaggart his suggestions for action to be taken at this time.
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart responded that if the Council allows no City land for the
Long Point project, their negotiations with Ocean Trails might be less productive. He
expressed his long- standing feeling that there should not be golf on City property but
hoped this would not kill the project because he felt the City needed, and deserved, this
hotel. He was concerned that allowing golf on City property would jeopardize funding for
purchase of open space. He raised another issue that if golf were allowed on the
property adjacent to City Hall, the Coastal Commission would then be involved in how
we used our own land, for example the Independence Day celebration, and he found
this unacceptable. Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart made reference to the federal
restrictions on the use of the Upper Point Vicente Park at City Hall when it was deeded
to the City and this was even more important than the opinion of the Federal and State
environmental agencies and that even though Bill Tippets had been designated as
negotiator, the City had not heard directly from the Federal government.
Councilmember Gardiner felt that the best opportunity for creativity would be if the box
could be defined as close as possible to a final decision with the preference that no City
land is used for the project, that villas are not desired, and that the City is amenable to
finding proper methods to help boost Long Point's internal rate of return and to
encourage their cooperative ventures with Ocean Trails. He suggested that the final
definition of the "box" this evening would benefit all parties.
Mayor Lyon reiterated that furthering the completion of the NCCP would be another
benefit of making a decision tonight to deny Long Point use of City land. She said that
she had always thought that some modified portion of the proposal might work but that
she was moved by what Craig Mueller said about the goals of the 1975 General Plan.
She said that the City needed a better Civic Center and playing field for children, as well
as an independent source of revenue for the City that a successful hotel would supply.
She also stressed the importance of purchasing additional open space.
Councilmember Gardiner restated his motion: To allow no use of City land by the Long
Point developer and to ask the developer to re -think the villas, with the understanding
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 15
that the City is amenable to the proper way to make Long Point's figures of merit more
attractive.
Mayor Lyon seconded Councilmember Gardiner's motion.
City Attorney Lynch suggested that mention of the villas should be avoided because
this was an issue to be discussed later at a noticed public hearing. She added that it
was appropriate to discuss the use of City land but not to discuss the specific of the
project.
The maker and seconder of the motion agreed.
Councilmember Gardiner was enthusiastic about the possibilities of City benefits from
this Council decision regarding the land adjacent to City Hall such as a visitor center at
the Civic Center, an active or passive recreational area, possibly a summer festival,
performing arts, etc.
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart agreed but said there was an unknown element that the
resource agencies might covet this land and that they have leverage in this respect.
Councilmember Gardiner suggested that the area downslope might be under the
control of the resource agencies and the City could develop the flat area at the top of
the hill.
Councilman Stern agreed with Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart that the resource agency
could be a problem but that hopefully the Council could send a clear message of intent
which would improve the City's chances of acquiring open space.
Mayor Lyon indicated that the chances were also improved in light of the Governor's
approving the March park measure. She felt that Mr. Mohler had been given
information to take back to the developer and she looked forward to an interesting
meeting on November 7.
The motion was repeated: To allow no use of City land by the Long Point developer
with the understanding that the City is amenable to exploring proper and appropriate
ways to make Long Point's figures of merit more attractive.
Without exception, the motion carried.
RECESS & RECONVENE:
At 9:40 P.M., Mayor Lyon declared a recess. The meeting reconvened at 9:54 P.M.
Approval of the August 21St Minutes (301)
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 16
City Clerk Purcell presented the staff report of October 16, 2001 and the
recommendation to consider Councilman Stern's amendment to the August 21, 2001
minutes.
Mayor Lyon asked if the City had a video tape of the meeting.
City Clerk Purcell said the tape would be retained until the minutes were approved.
Councilman Stern said that since the tape would not be retained after approval of the
minutes and the Council decision to postpone a decision regarding additional homes in
Zone II was based on Council discussion and not on information in the staff report.
Therefore, he felt it was important to make the changes he suggested.
Councilman Stern moved to adopt the Minutes of August 21, 2001, as amended.
Councilman Stern said that he had prepared the amended while watching the video
tape of the meeting and wondered if the Council felt the information he submitted was
inaccurate. He felt if that was not the concern, there was no reason to reject the
amendment.
Mayor Lyon said that the amendment read like an unnoticed deposition.
Councilman Stern reiterated that the information discussed was important in showing
why the Council made its decision and the staff report and the minutes as originally
submitted provided no evidence to indicate why the decision was made.
Councilmember Gardiner pointed out that the Council had at its last meeting made the
decision to experiment with more detailed minutes and he asked what the protocol was
when a Councilmember wished to change the draft minutes presented.
Councilwoman Ferraro replied that a change to the minutes required a majority vote by
the Council.
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart said that if a Councilmember wanted to change a word or
two or felt that the emphasis was incorrect, usually the Council agreed to the change
but that it was unusual for a Councilmember to change an entire section and it not been
Council policy in the past to make these types of changes.
Councilman Stern read an example of the originally submitted minutes compared with
his amendment and again stressed that his amendment was a necessary, complete
account of the discussion.
Mayor Lyon said that the Council had agreed to change the minutes format but that she
did not feel this amendment was necessary.
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 17
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart said that the discussion that took place was a courtroom
type interrogation.
Councilman Stern said that he would not object to the discussion being characterized
as an interrogation.
Councilmember Gardiner suggested that the amendment be distilled.
Councilman Stern `s motion died for lack of a second.
Mayor Lyon suggested that the City Clerk could do that and bring the minutes with the
distilled amendment to the next Council meeting.
There was no objection.
Purchase of HDPE Pipe For The Palos Verdes Drive South Drainage Repair
Project (1204 x 604)
Director Allison presented the staff report of October 16, 2001 and the recommendation
to authorize the purchase of HDPE pipe for the Palos Verdes Drive South Drainage
Repair Project from P & F Distributors for $38,874.60 plus authorize staff to spend an
additional $3,125.40 for possible extra work, for a total authorization of $42,000.
Councilmember Gardiner moved, seconded by Mayor Lyon to adopt staff
recommendation.
The motion carried on the following roll call vote:
AYES: Gardiner, Ferraro, McTaggart, Stern, and Mayor Lyon
NOES: None
Storm Drain Repairs Near Palos Verdes Drive South At Peppertree Drive (1204 x
604)
Director Allison presented the staff report of October 16, 2001 and the recommendation
to (1) Award a construction contract on a time and material basis for drainage repairs
to Colich and Sons, L.P. for an amount not to exceed $72,000. (2) Authorize the Mayor
and the City Clerk to execute the contract with Colich and Sons on behalf of the City.
(3) Award a contract for design, construction management and inspection services to
Merit Civil Engineering, an on -call consultant, and authorize the expenditure in the
amount of $22,000. (4) Award a contract for design phase environmental coordination,
construction phase environmental coordination and inspection services to Helix
Environmental Planning, Inc., an on -call consultant, and authorize expenditure in the
amount of $18,000.
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 18
Councilmember Gardiner moved, seconded by Councilwoman Ferraro to adopt staff
recommendation.
Councilman Stern observed that it seemed there had many emergencies within the last
six months and he suggested that, although no one was at fault, there should be some
action taken to survey the whole infrastructure, as was done with the analysis of the
storm drains, so that emergency action was kept to a minimum
Councilmember Gardiner echoed Councilman Stern's thoughts.
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart said that the Council had instructed the staff to find
deficiencies and they did. He said that it was necessary to take emergency action
because homes were in danger and that there was not time to complete a master plan.
Councilman Stern understood but hoped the City would take a look at the entire
infrastructure.
Councilmember Gardiner said that the Palos Verdes Drive East Drainage Improvement
Program item on the agenda that evening was an example that this type of action was
being taken.
The motion carried on the following roll call vote:
AYES: Gardiner, Ferraro, McTaggart, Stern, and Mayor Lyon
NOES: None
Geology Review —Zone II (1101 x 1801)
City Manager Evans presented the staff report of October 16, 2001 and the
recommendation to amend the Professional Services Agreement with Cotton, Shires
and Associates for the review of existing geologic and geotechnical documents related
to Zone II to authorize the expenditure of an additional $15,000 from Building and
Safety Account 402.35 Technical and Professional Services.
City Manager Evans added that there were two additional reports to be submitted for
review by Cotton Shires and the peer review group and that this review would not be
complete in time for the October 30 meeting which had been scheduled specifically to
discuss this topic alone.
Councilman Stern inquired how much time was needed for the review
City Manager Evans replied that he had not seen the Cummings report but Bill Cotton
had received it, and that no one had seen the report from Dr. Vonder Linden.
Mayor Lyon asked City Manager Evans to keep the Council informed of the progress.
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 19
Mayor Pro Tem McTaggart suggested that a Saturday workshop might be a good idea.
Mayor Lyon agreed and recalled a RDA workshop a few years ago which seemed to
have a more comfortable atmosphere because it was on a Saturday. She suggested
that it be held at Ladera Linda Community Center as before.
City Manager Evans could not provide a date but said that when he had confirmation
from Bill Cotton that the final report was ready, he would place this item on the agenda
again.
Councilman Stern moved to cancel the meeting of October 30; to postpone
rescheduling until the final report was ready for Council review; and, to amend the
Professional Services Agreement with Cotton, Shires and Associates for the review of
existing geologic and geotechnical documents related to Zone II to authorize the
expenditure of an additional $15,000 from Building and Safety Account 402.35
Technical and Professional Services.
Marianne Hunter, 1 Cinnamon Lane, asked about a cutoff date for public comment.
City Manager Evans emphasized that there was never a deadline for public comment,
however, there was a cutoff date for comments to go to Bill Cotton for input into the final
report. He said that this date would be October 31 and that this information would be
posted on the reader board and the City's website.
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart seconded the motion.
The motion carried on the following roll call vote:
AYES: Gardiner, Ferraro, McTaggart, Stern, and Mayor Lyon
NOES: None
Palos Verdes Drive East Drainage Improvement Program (1204 x 604)
Director Allison presented an abbreviated staff report of October 16, 2001,
accompanied by a computer generated visual presentation and the recommendation to
(1) Receive status report from RBF Consulting regarding proposed drainage
improvements along Palos Verdes Drive. (2) Authorize Staff to proceed with design for
the drainage system most in need of immediate repair /replacement. (3) Authorize Staff
to request proposals from qualified environmental consultants to obtain environmental
clearance for all 15 of the deficient drainage systems on Palos Verdes Drive East. (4)
Authorize staff to obtain any necessary Right of Way permits required for the successful
completion of this project.
Bruce Phillips of RBF Consulting, also providing a computer generated visual
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 20
presentation, discussed objectives, benefits, problems, symptoms, solutions, and, the
phases of the project. He illustrated the study area with its 39 existing 39 existing
drainage systems.
Director Allison reported that the City had received complaints for problems for on
private land.
Bruce Phillips said that the system was aging and a survey indicated that 21 out of the
29 drains Bruce videotaped needed repair and said that some of the bottoms and sides
of the metal pipes were gone. He said that most needed upsizing or replacement and
reported that a robot camera was used also.
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart asked if concrete pipes could be repaired rather than
replaced
Bruce Phillips said that concrete pipes have a longer life but cracked. He indicated that
if the pipe was large enough, men can go down in the pipe, and with a drill or router
they could epoxy the crack.
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart said that the men would need to be able to breathe while in
those pipes.
Bruce Phillips stressed that there was compliance with OSHA safety requirements and
it was usually less expensive to take alternative action. He then went on to rank the
drains by severity and a cost/benefit ratio and estimated that construction costs would
be approximately eight million dollars.
Director Allison asked that the Council approve this multi -year plan, at a cost of about
$1.5 million per year and he discussed scheduling and funding, stating that it was
hoped work would begin in Summer 2002.
Councilman Stern moved, seconded by Mayor Pro Tem McTaggart, to (1) Authorize
Staff to proceed with design for the drainage system most in need of immediate
repair /replacement. (2) Authorize Staff to request proposals from qualified
environmental consultants to obtain environmental clearance for all 15 of the deficient
drainage systems on Palos Verdes Drive East. (3) Authorize staff to obtain any
necessary Right of Way permits required for the successful completion of this project.
Motion carried.
George and Pauline Chapin (1101 x 1206)
City Manager Evans presented the staff report of October 16, 2001 and the
recommendation to confirm that the City has not forgotten the murders of George and
Pauline Chapin and ask that the Sheriff expend renewed effort to solve the case.
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 21
Mayor Lyon added that she had been contacted by family members to make sure that
the case stays in the forefront of law enforcement.
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart asked who was sponsoring the reward.
City Manager Evans said the Sheriffs Department was funding a portion of it.
Mayor Lyon added the County had contributed as well.
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart suggested that the City add to the reward.
Mayor Lyon reported that she had gone to the graveside with their granddaughter and
there was no headstone
Mayor Pro Tem McTaggart thought that providing a headstone would be a nice gesture
as an alternative to adding to the reward.
Mayor Lyon asked City Manager Evans to contact the family about the headstone
Councilwoman Ferraro suggested that the item be brought back to the Council after the
family's response.
There was no objection.
City Council Policy For Disclosure (1101 x 306 x 310)
City Manager Evans presented the staff report of October 16, 2001 and the
recommendation to adopt a City Council Policy for the disclosure of communications
between City Council members and any person regarding a development proposal.
City Clerk Purcell pointed out that there had been an email from Councilman Stern after
the staff report was completed which amended slightly the proposed policy.
Councilman Stern moved, seconded by Councilmember Gardiner, to adopt the policy
as amended. Motion carried
Holiday Appreciation Reception (I 101)
Assistant City Manager Petru presented the staff report of October 16, 2001 and the
recommendation to select a date for the annual holiday appreciation reception for City
Committee Members, Commissioners, and Staff Members.
Mayor Lyon suggested Monday, December 10. There was no objection.
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 22
CLOSED SESSION REPORT:
City Attorney Lynch reported that no action was taken on the first item and that an
update was provided by the City Manager. She said that for the second item, the
anticipated litigation, the Council unanimously authorized the staff recommendation to
issue permits to Sprint for eight cellular sites that will not impact views and that will not
be placed in front of anyone's residence.
CITY COUNCIL REPORTS:
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart reported that, as reported in the Daily Breeze, there would
be a walkabout at the proposed Harbor hills facility the following Monday, October 22,
to look at the topography of land and discuss the plan. He discussed the possibility that
the County might offer some type of remediation and he also mentioned a controversy
regarding racial issues. He was shocked that it was felt that notice to the adjoining City
of Rancho Palos Verdes was unnecessary and with the assistance of L.A. County
Supervisor Don Knabe and a letter from Mayor Lyon he hoped that this practice would
be changed.
Councilman Stern reported on his Ocean Trails liaison meeting and said there was now
a tentative schedule for the remediation of the landslide, work on Palos Verdes Drive
South, etc., with hopefully better communication with the residents of the status of work
at the site. He said that the repair of Palos Verdes South and permanent repairs to La
Rotondo was scheduled for June through November 2002. The chain link fence was
going to be removed or possibly simply moved back from the highway to maintain a
safety barrier.
Mayor Pro Tern McTaggart replied that he and Councilwoman Ferraro were going to
write a letter concerning the Department of Transportation policy of charging higher
costs during peak landing hours because that would cause more night flights which
would further impact sleep for City residents. He stated that also controllers were
allowing planes to fly low over the Peninsula to conserve fuel and this was also
unacceptable. He said that the expansion of LAX had been abandoned officially but he
suspected there would be expansion of a different sort, with less parking and more
commuter planes and noise over the Peninsula.
Mayor Pro Tem McTaggart disclosed that he received a call from Rob Katherman who
represents a developer but they did not discuss the project and but only talked about
the new disclosure policy.
City Council Minutes
October 16, 2001
Page 23
ADJOURNMENT: Adjourned at 11:04 P.M. on motion of Mayor Lyon.
ATTEST:
CIT CLERK
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October 16, 2001
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