CC MINS 20051022 ADJ JNTMINUTES
RANCHO PALOS VERDES CITY COUNCIL
ADJOURNED REGULAR JOINT CITY COUNCIL/
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
OCTOBER 22, 2005
The meeting was called to order at 11:00 A.M. by Mayor Clark at Fred Hesse
Community Park, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard, Rancho Palos Verdes.
Roll call was answered as follows:
Citv Council:
PRESENT: Long, Gardiner, Stern, Wolowicz and Mayor Clark
ABSENT: None
Planning Commission:
IT
PRESENT: Karp, Knight, Mueller and Chair Tetreault (Commissioner
Perestsam joined the meeting in progress at 11:10 A.M.)
ABSENT: Gerstner, Golida
Also present were City Manager Evans; City Attorney Lynch; Assistant City Manager/
City Clerk Petru; and Director of Planning, Building & Code Enforcement Rojas.
FLAG SALUTE:
Former Congressman Steve Kuykendall led the Pledge of Allegiance.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
Councilman Gardiner moved, seconded by Councilman Stern to approve the Agenda.
Without objection, Mayor Clark so ordered.
PUBLIC COMMENTS:
Tom Redfield, Rancho Palos Verdes, expressed concern about the timing of the
Planning Commission's upcoming meeting on the Marymount College project and
asked the City to shift the meeting date from November to January so that it would not
interfere with the upcoming holiday season.
Director Rojas clarified that the upcoming public hearing was a scoping meeting
regarding the project's Environmental Impact Report (EIR).
City Attorney Lynch expressed concern about delaying the public hearing process due
to the constraints of the Permit Streamlining Act. She clarified for Councilman Gardiner
that the timeline required by the Act was triggered when the application was deemed
complete. In answer to Mayor Clark's question, she explained that the City had one
year in which to process the EIR and for the Planning Commission to act on the
Conditional Use Permit application, although any appeal of the Planning Commission's
decision to City Council would not be subject to the Permit Streamlining Act.
Director Rojas indicated that the City deemed Marymount's application complete on
August 26, 2005. In answer to Mayor Clark's question Director Rojas explained that the
lag time between the date the application was complete and the scheduling of the
scoping meeting was due to a need to refine the scope of work and renew the previous
contract with the EIR consultant. In response to Councilman Gardiner, he indicated
that, while the scoping meeting was not mandatory under the California Environmental
Quality Act (CEQA), its purpose was to allow the public the opportunity to identify what
issues should be analyzed in the EIR.
Mayor Clark indicated that the EIR would also consider alternatives to the proposed
project and referenced an alternative previously proposed by,the adjacent neighbors.
Councilman Long stated that he understood the requirements of the Permit Streamlining
Act, but asked if it would be possible to start the scoping meeting in December, but then
continue it to January in order to accept more public input.
Director Rojas responded that CEQA provides for a 30 -day public comment period, but
that the City may be able to extend it to 45 days with approval from the state.
Mayor pro tem Wolowicz agreed with Councilman Long's suggestion, but was
concerned as to when the project would come before the City Council.
Mayor Clark noted that the project would come to Council only on appeal.
Mayor pro tem Wolowicz wanted some assurance that a schedule would be prepared
for the project.
Councilman Gardiner concurred with Mayor pro tem Wolowicz's suggestion, but
indicated that he wanted the analysis of the project to include multiple scenarios,
including best case, worst case, etc., but all within the context of the legal deadlines.
City Attorney Lynch agreed with the Council's suggestions and noted that an appeal
was highly likely on this project.
Tina Maron, Rancho Palos Verdes, She explained that her property was flooded by an
upslope neighbor during the past winter storms and that this neighbor was not required
to upgrade the drainage pipe on his property during a remodeling project several years
earlier. She expressed concern that the City's regulations do not require an engineer to
review drainage deficiencies on a lot when an addition is proposed that is less than
5,000 square feet in size.
Minutes of City Council /Planning Commission Joint Workshop
Saturday, October 22, 2005
Page 2 of 14
Director Rojas stated that the drainage facilities on the property referenced by Ms.
Maron were installed under the County's jurisdiction and would not be allowed under the
current codes. He explained that there was an addition made to the subject property in
1998 that did not trigger a change in the drainage system on the lot and indicated that
he would review the situation to determine whether the City needed to enact an
ordinance or implement some type of written policy to address this issue.
Mayor Clark disclosed that he had visited Ms. Maron's property at her invitation. In light
of the fact that many property owners were remodeling their homes, he asked if the
City's Code needed to be refined to deal with inadequate drainage systems. He asked
staff to review the codes of other cities and determine whether the City should require a
licensed civil engineer, in addition to a building inspector, to look at the plans for
proposed remodeling projects.
Mayor pro tem Wolowicz requested that staff bring back this issue to Council on a date
certain to that the City would not lose track of the issue.
Councilman Gardiner voiced his support for the direction given to staff on this issue.
APPROVAL OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR
Repair of the Tarapaca Storm Drain (604 x 1204)
Reviewed and reconfirmed by a four /fifths (4/5) vote, the Council's previous action on
December 21, 2004 to authorize staff to conduct an informal bid process to repair the
Tarapaca Storm Drain.
Mayor Clark moved, seconded by Councilman Long to approve the consent calendar.
The motion to approve the Consent Calendar, as amended, carried on the following roll
call vote:
AYES:
Gardiner, Long, Stern,
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
ABSENT:
None
REGULAR BUSINESS:
Wolowicz and Mayor Clark
Neighborhood Compatibility Review Findings (1203)
Chair Tetreault provided Council with an introduction to this topic and observed that the
concept of neighborhood compatibility is highly subjective.
Mayor pro tern Wolowicz noted that several Planning Commission members also serve
on the Residential Standards Committee and asked if some of the issues related to
neighborhood compatibility were being addressed through this parallel process.
Minutes of City Council /Planning Commission Joint Workshop
Saturday, October 22, 2005
Page 3 of 14
In response, Chair Tetreault highlighted an example of a new home proposed near the
intersection of Palos Verdes Drive East and Via Canada that had generated several
comments from the community about the fact that the rear fagade of the home was
more visually obtrusive than the front of the house.
Commissioner Karp noted that, in addition to the home's massive size, it was painted a
very bright color that made it stand out even more in contrast to the other homes in the
area. He suggested that the City might want to expand the review of neighborhood
compatibility to include a home's paint color.
Commissioner Mueller indicated that the Planning Commission had considered other
projects that were as massive as the home being referenced, but noted that this
particular house can be seen from a major arterial roadway. However, he stated that he
was opposed to the concept of controlling the color of a house.
Chair Tetreault noted that paint color and exterior building materials were included in
the City's adopted Neighborhood Compatibility Guidelines.
Mayor Clark clarified that these were guidelines, and not part of the City's Code.
Commissioner Perestam stated that in most cases, the Planning Commission had not
encountered any problems, but the home on Via Canada was a unique case because it
was highly visible to the general public. He questioned if the definition of
"neighborhood" was broad enough to address this type of situation.
Mayor Clark provided a brief history of the committee that developed the Neighborhood
Compatibility Code Amendment and the subsequent guidelines. He noted that
determining whether a project was compatible with the surrounding neighborhood was
an art rather than a science and not applied too stringently. He indicated that it was
often difficult to define what constitutes the immediate neighborhood and suggested that
it may need to be expanded from the closest 10 homes to the closest 20 homes
surrounding a proposed project.
Councilman Stern asked if the Palos Verdes Art Jury reviewed and approved the Via
Canada house because it is located in the Miraleste area.
Chair Tetreault responded that the Palos Verdes Art Jury did not review the project
because, due to an anomaly in its district boundaries, the property was not within the Art
Jury's jurisdiction.
Councilman Stern asked if the City staff had considered the residence's rear fagade as
part of its review of the project.
Director Rojas indicated that staff did consider the rear fagade when reviewing the
project, but felt that it was really the paint color that made the residence stand out and
sparked the public controversy.
Minutes of City Council /Planning Commission Joint Workshop
Saturday, October 22, 2005
Page 4 of 14
Councilman Stern observed that the surrounding neighborhood was eclectic and that it
was difficult to determine which of the surrounding homes should be included in the
analysis of neighborhood compatibility due to the topography and configuration of the
roadway. However, he indicated that paint color should be considered as part of the
analysis.
Councilman Gardiner reminded his colleagues that not all the issues associated with the
neighborhood compatibility review process had been worked out yet and that it was
important to gain more experience and then revisit the standards later on to add
refinements to those areas that needed more actual experience to articulate and then
craft standards to address these areas.
Mayor Clark stated his understanding that the City's original Development Code
included neighborhood compatibility standards, but were removed in 1979 and then put
back in 1989 through Proposition M, although the new standards were rather weak. He
noted that development standards for single - family homes built in the 1970's were very
different from the expectations of property owners today.
Councilman Long stated that the neighborhood compatibility standards are a work in
progress; that the concept of neighborhood compatibility is very difficult to define; and
cited a specific example of a residence in his own neighborhood that he described as
the "Medieval Castle." He indicated that he favored creating a color palette for
residences that would not be limited to just earth tones. He stated that the apparent
bulk and mass of a structure should be considered from all building elevations that are
visible to the public, due to the sloping topography of the City. He opined that the most
difficult problem was defining the boundaries of the neighborhood that the proposed
project will be compared to, particularly in terms of time. He asked if a project is to be
compared to the surrounding area as it currently exists, or how it might be in the future.
Mayor pro tem Wolowicz stated that, in his opinion, the standards should consider
building color, the appearance of all building facades and maximizing lot standards. He
also felt that neighborhood trends should also be considered and asked the Planning
Commission members if they felt the current guidelines needed to be modified or
strengthened.
Councilman Gardiner noted that the problem was that the Planning Commission saw
projects on a piecemeal basis, which resulted in gradual but relentless change that was
often only apparent after the fact. He questioned if the Planning Commission should be
more proactive rather than reactive to the inevitable transition of the City's housing
stock.
Councilman Long stated that in the Via Canada case, the silhouette did not adequately
depict what the finished residence was going to look like and indicated that some
thought should be given to improving silhouettes to make them more representative of
the finished project.
Minutes of City Council /Planning Commission Joint Workshop
Saturday, October 22, 2005
Page 5 of 14
Mayor Clark noted that the City's 1950's and 1960's era housing stock is wearing out
and that its characteristics do not fit the needs of today's families. He indicated that the
City has made a first attempt at implementing neighborhood compatibility standards, but
the downside of this effort is that it is incremental and reactive. He noted that the
Residential Standards Committee is studying at the carrying capacity of the residential
lots in the City, which he felt was a useful approach. However, he explained that he did
not want to see the Planning Commission become a quasi -Art Jury and characterized a
move in this direction as a very slippery slope.
Councilman Long stated that part of the Residential Standards Committee's goal is to
determine what individual neighborhoods are in the process of transitioning into and
noted that each individual lot has a maximum carrying capacity, but that there may be
other issues to consider in determining neighborhood compatibility. He opined that it
was not possible to have homes on every lot that are equal in value to the land they sit
on now that property values are over $1 million.
Mayor Clark stated that, in hindsight, concerning the Via Canada project, the City might
have wanted to consider requiring vegetation to be planted along the rear fagade of the
residence to visually screen the property from Palos Verdes Drive East.
Councilman Gardiner stated that the criteria used to define the surrounding
neighborhood should be flexible to allow the Planning Commission to define it based on
the circumstances of each individual case. He explained that he would prefer that the
definition of neighborhood be broad, rather than narrow.
Mayor Clark noted that the guidelines currently defined the surrounding neighborhood
as the closest twenty homes.
Councilman Gardiner suggested that this definition might need to be adjusted.
Director Rojas recalled that the house on Via Canada may have been reviewed under
the previous standards, which used the closest ten homes.
Mayor Clark asked what standard had been applied to the large residence approved at
2 Yacht Harbor Drive.
Councilman Long noted that the subject property was a very unique situation and really
constituted a neighborhood unto itself.
Director Rojas recalled that the home on Via Canada went through the approval
process before the neighborhood compatibility guidelines were adopted.
Vice Chair Knight stated that he found the concept of "creeping incrementalism11 quite
interesting in terms of the size of additions and new homes getting larger over time.
Mayor Clark indicated that the City had considered including a standard that tied the
size of an addition to the original size of the residence, but stated that it was taken out
Minutes of City Council /Planning Commission Joint Workshop
Saturday, October 22, 2005
Page 6 of 14
because it gave an unfair advantage to home that were originally built larger than others
in the same neighborhood.
Councilman Long stated that he would like to see a recommendation to address the
issue of carrying capacity other than lot coverage or maximum building square footage.
Vice Chair Knight asked about illegal additions and if they should be considered as part
of a neighborhood compatibility review.
City Attorney Lynch indicated that she felt the City should not be considering any illegal
additions when conducting a neighborhood compatibility analysis.
Mayor Clark indicated that some residents had approached him requesting that the City
provide an amnesty program for illegal additions because this can become an issue
when a property is sold.
Chair Tetreault expressed his appreciation for Council's input on this topic.
In wrapping up this topic, Mayor Clark reiterated that Council was looking for input from
the Planning Commission on any specific changes or new approaches that would
improve the City's review process of residential projects.
Commissioner Mueller indicated that many of the issues discussed at this workshop
would be the subjects of lively discussion at the next Residential Standards Committee
meeting.
Cumulative View Impact Finding (1804 x 1203)
Director Rojas provided an overview of the issue of cumulative view impact in
conjunction with Height Variation applications and asked for input from Council as to
how important potential future view impairment was in the overall view analysis.
Chair Tetreault noted that the issue of cumulative view impact was similar in many ways
to the discussion during the previous item on neighborhood compatibility where the City
is trying to look into the future and predict what a particular neighborhood was going to
look like. He asked for guidance from Council as to whether the first, second or third
project where there is a concern about cumulative impact should be approved because
the impact is incremental and small, but questioned whether the fourth project should be
denied because the impact was too great at that point.
For context, Mayor Clark noted that the finding regarding cumulative view impact was
incorporated into the Development Code with the passage of Proposition M, which was
a voter initiative and, therefore, could not be changed without another vote of the
people.
Councilman Long asked if, rather than gauged over time, the definition of cumulative
view impact could be broadened to include situations where one addition did not
Minutes of City Council /Planning Commission Joint Workshop
Saturday, October 22, 2005
Page 7 of 14
significantly impair the view of any given property, but instead impacted the views of a
number of other homes incrementally.
Councilman Stern referenced a recent case the Council had considered on Lomo Drive
where Council was asked to accept the statements from adjacent property owners that
they did not plan to add second stories to their homes. He indicated that the City had
no mechanism in place, such as a recorded CC &R, to make these types of statements
legally binding, and wondered if there was a way to address the potential problem of
cumulative view impact in present terms.
Councilman Gardiner indicated that he found Councilman Long's suggestion of looking
at cumulative impact in a different manner fascinating and felt that it merited
consideration. Turning back to the current Code standard, he stated that he found the
graphic representations of cumulative view impact prepared by staff to not be accurate
and thought that they could be overstating the extent of the impact. He indicated that
the City needed a truer representation of what the cumulative impact may be and felt
that more accurate photographic simulations were needed.
Mayor Clark noted that the determination that a specific project would not cause
cumulative view impairment was a mandatory finding required by Proposition M.
Mayor pro tem Wolowicz observed that the problem was situational and felt that the City
did not have enough legislative history to offer the Planning Commission clear guidance
on this issue. He asked Vice Chair Knight if there had been a consensus on a
recommendation from the Planning Commission on this issue could best be addressed.
Vice Chair Knight agreed that cumulative view impact was one of the most difficult of
the Height Variation findings to make and indicated that the Planning Commission relied
heavily on the graphic prepared by staff in making a determination regarding cumulative
view impact.
Mayor Clark stated that during his four terms on the Planning Commission he did not
recall many Height Variation cases were cumulative view impairment was at issue.
Commissioner Mueller noted that Councilman Long's definition of cumulative view
impairment was not currently part of the Development Code or the Height Variation
Guidelines and, therefore, could not currently be considered by the Planning
Commission in making its decisions. He expressed concern that there may not be a
clear understanding on both the City Council and the Planning Commission as to what
cumulative view impairment is exactly. Addressing Councilman Stern's comment, Mr.
Mueller felt that relying on neighbor's oral or written statements that they did not intend
on adding a second story to their homes in the future was legally unenforceable.
Councilman Stern clarified that he felt it could only be enforcement through a CC &R.
Commissioner Mueller agreed that requiring a CC &R was possible, but wondered who
would enforce it and noted that CC &Rs were another topic on this meeting's agenda.
Minutes of City Council /Planning Commission Joint Workshop
Saturday, October 22, 2005
Page 8 of 14
He indicated that he always considered "blue water" view when considering whether a
project would cause significant and cumulative view impairment and noted that on the
graphic "blue water" often does not appear to be that important, but it was quite
impressive when actually seen in the field.
Mayor Clark asked for final comments on this topic.
Councilman Gardiner stated that he too was struck by the difference between what he
saw during a site visit and what was depicted in the graphics prepared by staff. He
suggested that either the decision makers be required to visit the sites or that staff work
on improving on the graphics used in making the determination.
Chair Tetreault indicated that the Planning Commission wanted to discuss the issue of
cumulative view impairment with Council to try to understand it better. He noted that, as
a group, they had wondered whether they should deny second story additions that
cause only slight view impairment based on a presumption of what may or may not be
built on adjacent properties in the future.
Mayor Clark observed that, based on the discussion from both bodies, it was apparent
that the concept of cumulative view impairment was indeed a difficult one to deal with.
RECESS AND RECONVENE:
The joint meeting was recessed at 12:35 pm and reconvened at 12:40 pm.
CC&R's Deed Restrictions and Private Easements (450 x 1203)
Director Rojas indicated that Commissioner Karp had asked that this item to be
discussion with Council.
Commissioner Karp stated that he was concerned that the City was granting approvals
for projects that are in violation with the neighborhood's CC &Rs. He indicated that the
staff does not tell applicants to check their CC &Rs before starting a project. He noted
that even Home Depot suggested at its do- it- yourself clinics that property owners check
their Covenants, Codes and Restrictions (CC &Rs) before installing a prefabricated
storage building on your property. He felt that the City should at least do the same. He
also asked how he could vote in favor of a request brought before the Planning
Commission that he knows to be a violation of that neighborhood's CC &Rs.
City Attorney Lynch reported that Council has always taken the position that the does
not enforce CC &Rs. She noted that there might be situations where a homeowners'
association approves a project that the City would not approve under its Neighborhood
Compatibility ordinance, and vice versa. She indicated that it is a policy issue and that
Council could change its prior practice. She did not recommend, however, that the City
take on the responsibility of notifying property owners to check their CC &Rs before
beginning a project, as it could drag the City into disputes between individual
Minutes of City Council /Planning Commission Joint Workshop
Saturday, October 22, 2005
Page 9 of 14
homeowners or between a homeowner and their Homeowners Association regarding
the enforcement of a private contract to which the City was not a party.
Councilman Stern said that he tended to agree with the City Attorney, but thought that
the Planning Department should provide an information sheet for homeowners alerting
them to the fact that their property may be subject to CC &Rs. He emphasized that the
City did not draft CC &Rs because they are private contracts; that the City should not
attempt to interpret CC &Rs; that that CC &Rs should not be politicized; and that
enforcing them was not an appropriate use of public funds.
Chair Tetreault agreed that there were legal issues associated with the City getting
involved in enforcing CC &Rs and felt that it would be a good policy for the City to stay
out of these matters. He did not see any problem, however, with the City informing
applicants for new homes or substantial remodels that they must comply with any
CC &Rs that apply to their property. He suggested that applicants could be required to
submit a certificate attesting to the fact that their project is not in violation of the CC &Rs.
He felt that this application would be especially useful in situations were there were
CC &Rs governing a property, but no active homeowners' association to enforce them.
He noted that the alternative would be to hire their own attorney and go after the
violation themselves.
City Attorney Lynch confirmed that hiring an attorney would be the alternative.
Mayor Clark agreed with Councilman Stern that CC &Rs are private matters, and noted
that they have levels of complexity that the City should not get involved with. He cited
an example in his own neighborhood where enforcing the CC &Rs required 100% of the
properties to be members in the homeowners' association and currently there are only
fifty members in the association.
Councilman Long stated that in situations were the Planning Commission is faced with a
project which is acceptable under the City's Code, but which does not comply with the
property's CC &Rs, the Commission should still approve the project. He stated that he
agreed with Councilman Stern that it would be a good idea to have copies of all CC &Rs
available at City Hall for review by the public, but in no way should the City make
compliance with CC &Rs a requirement to obtain the permit or a formal part of the
approval process. He opined that doing so would at least double the City's litigation
budget and would only benefit neighborhoods that had recorded CC &Rs, which
comprised less than half of the City's neighborhoods, to the detriment of those
neighborhoods that did not have them.
Commissioner Karp clarified that he was not suggesting that the City take responsibility
for enforcing CC &Rs, he just wanted to provide a warning to applicants ahead of time
that their properties are subject to them.
City Attorney Lynch indicated that she could develop a standard disclaimer to be
attached to the City's permit application forms.
Minutes of City Council /Planning Commission Joint Workshop
Saturday, October 22, 2005
Page 10 of 14
Councilman Long asked City Attorney Lynch about the City providing copies of the
CC &Rs for the public.
City Attorney Lynch did not recommend providing copies to the public because of the
possibility that a particular set of CC &Rs is changed or repealed and the City gave the
public the wrong version of the document, thereby creating a liability issue.
Mayor pro tem Wolowicz asked if, when a house is sold, if the buyer was required to
sign a document acknowledging that CC &Rs apply to the property.
City Attorney Lynch indicated that Mayor pro tem Wolowicz was correct.
Councilman Long asked if the City cannot provide a copy of the CC &Rs to an applicant,
if the City could instead provide the name of the Homeowners' Association and the
contact information to the public.
City Attorney indicated she would prefer the City provide a generic statement advising
homeowners to check their title reports for CC &Rs applicable to their property to avoid
providing the applicant with incorrect information on this account.
Vice Chair Knight cited a recent case on Rockinghorse Road where there was concern
that this particular project would interfere with an easement granted in favor of another
property owner and that the City Attorney indicated that the City should not approve the
project until this issue was resolved. He suggested that there may be certain
circumstances where the City does need to take private agreements into consideration.
City Attorney Lynch responded that the City has always taken the position that private
easements are different from CC &Rs and the City should not approve projects that
interfere with duly recorded easements.
Mayor Clark called for the next item.
Upcoming Major Development Projects (1203)
Director Rojas stated that Commissioner Mueller had raised a concern that some
development projects were being sent directly to Council, and bypassing the Planning
Commission. He noted that the Development Code dictates which body reviews a
project at a particular stage in the process, and explained that revisions to major
projects are reviewed by the last body to act on the project. He stated that this is why
the Council reviewed revisions to the major development projects, such as Trump
National Golf Course and the Terranea Resort at Long Point. He also indicated that
there are several projects scheduled to be heard by the Planning Commission in the
near future, including Marymount College, a new service station in Golden Cove
Shopping Center and a General Plan Amendment in San Ramon Canyon, the senior
housing project on Crestridge Road and the casita project at Trump National.
Minutes of City Council /Planning Commission Joint Workshop
Saturday, October 22, 2005
Page 11 of 14
Commissioner Mueller indicated that he had been watching Council recently dealing
with the volume and complexity of the revisions to the Trump project, particularly the
home sites, and wondered why they were not being reviewed by the Planning
Commission instead, especially at a time when the Planning Commission's agendas
had been fairly light. He indicated that he now understood that the last body to act on
the project heard all subsequent revisions to it, but now had a different concern. He
expressed concern that a number of major projects were on track to come before the
Planning Commission and requested that staff develop a schedule to provide a
reasonable pacing of the Planning Commission's workload over the next six to seven
month period.
Councilman Long stated that he supported Council project reviews only if they did not
materially change the nature of the project, such as the recent changes to the Terranea
Resort or the revisions to the Trump National Golf Course. He noted that Council can
also refer project to the Planning Commission as appropriate, but did not want to
unnecessarily slow down the review process and overburden the Planning
Commission's schedule.
Councilman Gardiner stated that he saw a similarity between the Marymount College
project and the earlier version of the Long Point hotel project when the developer was
asking to place a portion of the golf course on public land. With the Long Point project,
the Planning Commission was seeking guidance from Council on this fundamental land
use issue and once given, it was able to move forward with the application in an
expeditious manner. He noted that some aspects of the Marymount project may or may
not be acceptable to the City. He stated that he would like to find a way for Council to
provide the Planning Commission with proactive and early input on the Marymount
project so that a lot of time is unnecessary wasted in the review process. -
Mayor Clark indicated that the Pre - Screening Workshop would provide such an
opportunity for early input from Council.
Director Rojas indicated that the Pre - Screening Workshop for the Marymount College
project was scheduled for January 6, 2006.
Councilman Stern indicated that the proposed use of public land allowed the City the
legal basis to discuss this aspect of the Long Point project before the application had
been through the permit review process. He felt than in the case of the Marymount
project, such a review would become a due process issue and welcomed the Pre -
Screening Workshop as the best opportunity for the Council members to express their
opinions regarding various aspects of the proposed project.
City Attorney Lynch stated that the Pre - Screening Workshop was a valuable tool and
provided applicants with non - binding input regarding their project, which they can either
accept or reject as they see fit. She cautioned Council and the Planning Commission
against providing binding guidance during the workshop, especially given federal
protections afforded to religious organizations.
Minutes of City Council /Planning Commission Joint Workshop
Saturday, October 22, 2005
Page 12 of 14
Mayor Clark cited the Covenant Church in the City of Rolling Hills Estates as a case
where non - binding input would have been valuable.
Councilman Stern agreed with both Commissioner Mueller and Councilman Long's
comments that major changes to an approved project should be referred back to the
Planning Commission.
Mayor Clark indicated that the list of upcoming major projects should include the
proposed hotel at the Trump National Golf Course, which he would strongly advocate
being reviewed first by the Planning Commission.
Mayor pro tem Wolowicz stated that he felt that too many items came before Council
that should be heard by the Planning Commission instead. He agreed that Joint Pre -
Screening Workshops were a useful tool for new major development projects. He also
supported referring multiple project revisions to the Planning Commission, keeping in
mind the time schedules and workloads of both Council and the Planning Commission.
Multiple Project Revisions (1203)
Mayor Clark stated that Mayor pro tem Wolowicz had adequately covered the
discussion of Multiple Project Revisions in his last comments regarding Upcoming Major
Development Projects and called for the next item on the agenda.
Role of the Planning Commission in Appeals to City Council (1203)
Director Rojas indicated that the City has generally had a Planning Commission
representative attend City Council meetings during appeal hearings and noted that the
Planning Commission Chair filled this role in recent years. He stated that at the last
appeal hearing, the Planning Commission Chair sat at the dais with staff, instead of in
the audience as had been the previous practice, and indicated that he felt this
arrangement allowed the Chair to interact with Council and was more efficient.
City Attorney Lynch indicated that she had always felt that it was appropriate to have
the representative from the Planning Commission present at the Council meeting, but
warned against having individual Commissioners lobbying Council for a particular result
in the appeal hearing, as it may bias them if the matter was referred back to the
Planning Commission for further consideration.
Commissioner Perestam explained that he thought it made it easier for Coun -cil to
understand the Planning Commission's decision process when the Chair sat at the dais
with staff during the last appeal hearing.
Councilman Stern noted that dissenting opinions are reflected in the excerpt minutes
that are included in the public record provided to Council.
Councilman Long stated that, in a perfect world, the excerpt minutes would be enough
for Council to understand how the Planning Commission arrived at its decision. He felt,
Minutes of City Council /Planning Commission Joint Workshop
Saturday, October 22, 2005
Page 13 of 14
however, that it was helpful to have a representative from the Planning Commission
attend the appeal hearing in order to answer questions and explain the basis for the
decision, including the majority and minority opinions expressed.
Councilman Gardiner asked if the Commission representative would prejudice
themselves if they explained the Planning Commission's decision - making process.
City Attorney Lynch stated that it would not, provided the Commission representative
was not advocating one point of view over another.
Commissioner Mueller indicated that he was comfortable with the process, as staff had
suggested it with the Chair or Vice Chair attending the meeting, but indicated that
Council should use the official minutes as the first source of information on the Planning
Commission's discussion and decision - making process.
Chair Tetreault indicated that the current process of having the Chair or Vice Chair
attend the Council appeal hearing and sit at the dais with staff had worked quite well, as
opposed to sitting in the audience were proponents and opponents of the project could
lobby them.
Mayor Clark thanked the Planning Commission members on behalf of the entire Council
for their volunteer service to the community. He indicated that he admired the talent
and dedication on the current Planning Commission members and thought that the joint
workshop had produced a useful interchange between Council and the Planning
Commission.
ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Clark declared the meeting adjourned at 1:21 P.M.
ayor
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WACity Council Minutes\2005 \20051022 CC MINS ADJ MTG.doc
Minutes of City Council /Planning Commission Joint Workshop
Saturday, October 22, 2005
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