RDA MINS 19960316 MINUTES
RANCHO PALOS VERDES REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
WORKSHOP
MARCH 16, 1996
The meeting was called to order at Ladera Linda Community Center, 32201 Forrestal
Drive, at 9:06 A.M. by Chair Lyon. The flag salute was led by Member Hollingsworth.
Present: Members Byrd, Ferraro, and Hollingsworth, McTaggart, and Chair Lyon.
Absent: None
Chair Lyon explained that this workshop was intended to bring the public and new
members of the Redevelopment Agency up to date regarding the landslide abatement
efforts of the Redevelopment Agency, other agencies and private landowners, and also
to provide the public with an opportunity to provide input to the RDA.
Chair Lyon related a brief history of the landslide, indicating that usually the landslide
was referred to as Portuguese Bend or Abalone Cove but that they were actually two
separate slides, and there were also the Klondike Canyon and Flying Triangle slides,
the latter being located in Rolling Hills. She explained that the first to move in recent
times was the Portuguese Bend landslide, in 1956, when Los Angeles County moved
300,000 cubic yards of soil at the end of Crenshaw Boulevard, reactivating the ancient
landslide. Ms. Lyon stated that there had been a level of success in slowing the earth
movement and that dewatering wells had prevented any appreciable movement since
1980. She added that, in 1995, at Abalone Cove also, dewatering wells had been
installed.
Agency Attorney Carol Lynch was introduced and she explained that the Moratorium
Ordinance,adopted by the City Council in 1978, separate from the Redevelopment
Agency, was in response to movement inland from Palos Verdes Drive South. Ms.
Lynch explained that the ordinance placed a moratorium on all building, grading, and
any type of development and that it had been amended several times. She clarified
that remedial grading and minor development to existing structures were allowed and
that property owners could apply for an exclusion if the City Geologist and the City
Council determined that the development would have no impact on the land stability.
Agency Attorney Lynch discussed a recent supreme court decision in South Carolina in
which a landowner sought to develop his property and it was determined that there had
to be a balance between allowing development by a property owner along with keeping
land stable and preventing a public nuisance or damage to adjacent properties.
Charles Abbott, of Charles Abbott Associates, indicated the boundaries of the
moratorium area, determined by the City Geologist, Dr. Perry Ehlig, shown with a heavy
black line on two large aerial maps posted on both sides of the room, and discussed
Initial Studies of the Moratorium Area.
Ann Marie Davis, Director of the Abalone Cove Landslide Abatement District and the
Klondike Canyon Geologic Hazard Abatement District (ACLAD and KCGHAD) related a
history of both Districts and explained their funding and functions.
Executive Director Bussey spoke on the creation of the Redevelopment Agency,
including the reason for establishing the agency and the means of financing it. He
explained that in order for a Redevelopment Agency to operate, a project area had to
be defined and that the City of Rancho Palos Verdes had identified the landslide area
as Project Area No. 1.
Charles Abbott provided information regarding past efforts, future projects, and current
geologic investigations in reference to the abatement of the Portuguese Bend and
Abalone Cove landslides, and explained the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Shore
Protection Study. He provided several charts shown to the audience on a overhead
project.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
Recessed from 10:15 A.M. to 10:25 A.M.
Executive Director Bussey announced that there were reports available to the audience
regarding the subjects on the agenda.
Member Lee Byrd explained the Global Positioning System (GPS) and how
measurements of land movement were determined using this method.
Dr. Perry Ehlig, the City's Geologist, described the current land movement of the
landslide areas.
Agency Attorney Lynch gave details of the 1987 Landslide Settlement Agreement
between local property owners and Los Angeles County.
Brent Mattingly provided a status report on the Debt Service and its impact of
landowner assessments, providing handouts for the audience to follow along. He
described two options suggested by the consulting firm of Rosenow Spevacek Group,
Inc. (RSG) for dealing with the Debt Service, an agressive (best) scenerio which would
be advantageous to the City and the property owners. He also explained a
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MARCH 16,1996
PAGE 2
conservative (worst) scenerio. He then described in detail the handouts which were
provided to the audience.
Member McTaggart asked Mr. Mattingly which scenerio Los Angeles County would be
inclined to favor.
Assist City Manager Mattingly replied that he believed that the County would favor the
conservative scenerio.
Agency Attorney Lynch concurred.
Executive Director Bussey indicated that negotiation between the parties involved
would be necessary before any conclusion could be reached.
Chair Lyon stated that this subject could be placed on a future RDA agenda. Chair
Lyon then called for public testimony.
Jesus Gutierrez, (no speaker request form) said that he was pleased that the RDA
Board was considering all options. He recommended that the $3 million allotted for
sewers be used for this purpose, but only if this action would help keep the land stable.
Mr. Gutierrez asked if holding tanks would be required when developing property if the
sewers were not installed.
Executive Director Bussey replied that there been quite a bit of discussion but there
had been no decision yet. He added that final review was taking place to complete the
Environmental Impact Report and the subject of holding tanks had not yet been
addressed.
Brent Mattingly clarified that the $3 million was not specifically set aside for sewers but
could be used for other projects as well.
Kathy Snell, (no address given) urged the Board to return the remainder of the money
to the County and have the RDA issue tax increment bonds. She stated that, if the
funds were not paid back, the owner of the bond could take over the agency and the
land. Ms. Snell asked why the study, which cost $7,700,00, did not include tax
increment funds for the Hon and York properties and said that, because of this
ommission, she felt the study was a fraudulent document or someone was not paying
attention.
Executive Director Bussey responded that the RDA did have the have right to sell tax
increment bonds even if it paid back the County, but could not sell these bonds soon.
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MARCH 16,1996
PAGE 3
He said that the reason the County sold the bonds originally was because the RDA,
with the projected tax increment, did not have sufficient funds to meet underwriting
standards and there would be no market for the bonds. He added that Staff did not
see the RDA selling bonds for a long time, unless there was a large increase in tax
increment. As far as the study not including certain areas, Mr. Bussey explained that
some areas outside the moratorium area were included because they still fell within the
RDA area. In reference to the land owned by James York, lower filiorium, he said that
it was not included because there was no application before the City, however, he said
that there could be a request for development in that area soon. Mr. Bussey stated that
Staff was reluctant to use projections for which there was no reasonable evidence to
think would happen, especially with the impact of the economy. Executive Director
Bussey said that there were no increases in tax increment for Peacock Flats now and,
even assuming there might be development in Zone 2, the City Council had not
approved such development.
Al Edgerton, 59 Oceanaire Drive, asked if the taxpayers were paying for the ongoing
Hon property exploration.
Executive Director Bussey said that Palos Verdes Land Holdings, previously known as
Hon Development, had placed funds in a trust deposit for exploration and, therefore, no
taxpayer money was used. He added that there was some incidental City time used for
monitoring but not enough to be significant.
Mr. Edgerton asked if Dr. Perry Ehlig contemplated extensive earth removal and
replacement in the Portuguese Bend slide area if justified by current exploration
results. He also wondered if the City was evaluating the risks of destabilizing upslope
land when this material was removed. If so, how, and if not, why not.
Executive Director Bussey said that there was significant earth movement in
Portuguese Bend.
Mr. Edgerton asked if removing a driving force in one area and digging out for
exploration was going to provide better understanding of the problem.
Dr. Perry Ehlig said that in analyzing the proposed work, it was not a matter of taking
dirt away and stockpiling it, moving from east to west, but by cutting one area at a time
and stacking it, only a small slip is exposed at one time.
Member Byrd clarified that there was no project of this type approved at this time and, if
there was approval for such a project, it was not known from where the funds to pay for
it would come.
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MARCH 16, 1996
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Daphne Clarke, 10 Peppertree Drive, asked why there were no funds designated for
work on the Altamira Canyon other than the $3 million for sewers.
Executive Director Bussey replied that half the capital remained and the City was not
assuming that the $3 million was assigned to particular project but would be
appropriated as the Board decided. He said that the experts had indicated that the
priority would be for drainage.
Ms. Clark said that it appeared that the $3 million had been set aside for sewers.
Neil Siegel,, 38 Cinnamon, stated that he found the options interesting and asked if
someone would address the likelihood of feasibility. Mr. Siegel said that he lived in
Zone 2 and that the City should buy the land from the owners if they wanted open
space, not just take the value away from the property owners.
Executive Director Bussey said that one legal issue was who owns bonds and the
County feels that they do. It is hoped that negotiations would provide a lower interest
rate or different payment methods and it is suspected that Staff will bring to the Board
in the next months some recommendations to begin negotiations. Mr. Bussey indicated
that, until that time, it was difficult to say how feasible the options were.
Chair Lyon asked about Zone 2.
Agency Attorney Lynch said that she would defer to the expertise of the City Geologist
and Engineer to determine whether Zone 2 would be stable to a factor of 1.5 or less.
She said that if this safety factor could be determined, it was possible that a claim could
be made that Zone 2 ought to be exempt so that moderate development might be
allowed on those properties. She said, however, that, at this time, it was difficult for the
Board to provide this approval since they had no criteria.
Executive Director Bussey said that the City Council had asked for an Environmental
Impact Report (EIR) for that area but the geology of the land was a sensitive issue and
the study was taking a long time. He added that the City was not relying entirely on Dr.
Perry Ehlig but had asked for a second opinion. He reiterated that a safety factor of 1.5
was required for development.
•
Charles Stuart, 80 Narcissa Drive, said that he and his wife did not feel that it was
responsible to have the property owners assessed because the improvements were of
a more general natural, benefitting anyone driving on Palos Verdes Drive South,
enjoying the beach, or considering development. He said that the property owners had
been told that liens would not be placed on their properties believed that the bonds
should be paid by tax increment, rather than assessments. Mr. Stuart explained that
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MARCH 16,1996
PAGE 5
the agreement was accepted by the community in good faith but now some were
questioning it, including himself, holding the City responsible for the financial
commitment and for finding other ways to repay the bonds. He believed that it would
be best to return the bond money to the County rather than continue to have interest
accumulate.
John Monks, 28757 Crestridge Road, said that he lived on Ridgecrest and owned some
lots in Zone 2. He believed that the clarity and depth of the presentation were good but
was surprised that the basic issues were still being re-examined . He said that it had
been known for years that there was blight and the money was available to use and the
experts had made recommendations for action. Mr. Monks said that he had attended
an RDA meeting in September 1995 and that he had signed easement releases for
sewer work on his property and had expected action. He believed that property owners
needed answers because the value of their property was being affected and some had
even bought land with the understanding that the experts' recommendations would be
carried out.
Mike Walker, Vice President, Palos Verdes Land Holdings Company, Inc., 25200 La
Paz Road, Suite 210, Laguna Hills, CA 92653, reported that he had been assigned to
the Portuguese Bend project in the last eight or nine months, and had been trying in
that time to understand the constraints. He said that he understood that until the
geology question was settled, the land would remain in the moratorium area and that
there were also habitat issues as well. Mr. Walker stated that Palos Verdes Land
Holdings had been spending money to help the RDA investigate the problems, met with
Staff regularly, and were cooperating with the NCCP on sensitive biology questions.
He hoped to receive input from the local residents.
Maureen griffin, 5 Ginger Root Lane, thanked the Board for holding the meeting
because she believed the residents needed to hear the bad, as well as the good, news.
She stated that there had been many changes since the Horan settlement and that it
was now a flawed and unworkable agreement. Ms. Griffin indicated that she had not
wished to harm her neighbors when signing the agreement and believed the projects
and the spending should stop and that the money should be returned to the County.
Richard Bara, 1 Peppertree Drive, asked about the time frames for the ancient and
modern landslides.
Dr. Perry Ehlig said that the ancient landslide dated back about 125,000 years. The
modern landslide began at Portuguese Bend in 1956, and at Abalone Cove in 1978
north of Palos Verdes Drive South(and seaward, a little earlier). Dr. Ehlig indicated
that the Klondyke Canyon landslide began in approximately 1979.
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MARCH 16, 1996
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Executive Director Bussey referred to the report, written by Dr. Ehlig in 1992 and
distributed to the audience at today's meeting, which was an excellent source of
information for landslide facts.
Mr. Bara asked about the $10 million in the trust fund, and said that if it had not been
spent, it should be. He believed that the economy had made the arrangement with the
County unattractive and asked if the RDA could return the money to the County and
regain it later.
Mr. Brent Mattingly replied that the $10 million set aside had been earning interest of
about 6.5% and very little had been actually been spent for maintenance activities. He
indicated that part of the $10 million was repaid to county for expenditures incurred
prior to receiving money and that part of it was repaid to the City for advances. Mr.
Mattingly explained that there had been expenditures and earned interest which meant
that the amount of money had remained about the same.
Executive Director Bussey answered Mr. Bara's question about regaining the money by
replying that there was nothing in the original agreement to indicate this was an option
but that possibly this could be negotiated.
Mr. Bara asked if the tax increment generated by entire area was paying off the debt
service for the Abalone Cove area.
Executive Director Bussey said that this was correct.
Jack Downhill, 20 Vanderlip Drive, distributed a letter to the RDA Board, indicating the
impact of the 1987 Horan settlement, stating that he wished to put the past behind and
concentrate on a proposal to finally solve the problems, favoring the aggressive
approach described by Mr. Mattingly.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
The meeting was recessed at 12:38 P.M. and reconvened at 12:47 P.M.
Sharon Hegetsweiler, 6 Clovetree Place, disagreed with the statement made by the
RDA that a new home could be built in Zone 2 for$400,000, and provided descriptions
of homes and recent selling prices in the area.
Ms. Hegetsweiler suggested that the monies be returned to the County and wondered if
this decision would require the unanimous consent of the Horan litigants. She asked if
the County bought back the bond issue itself and if there had been efforts to
renegotiate the terms, expressing doubt that the County would be reluctant to
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MARCH 16,1996
PAGE 7
negotiate. Ms. Hegetsweiler believed that the priority should be to abate the landslide
rather than focusing on the fiscal impact . Ms. Hegetsweiler also expressed concern
that the inability to add bathrooms to current homes without a holding tanks made
development difficult. She also suggested that any development in Zone 2 be delayed
until the effect of sewers might be determined.
Executive Director Bussey pointed out that building a new home on a lot already owned
would be less expensive than purchasing a different home because the land value was
already there.
Kay Bara, 1 Peppertree Drive, asked who would be involved in the negotiations with
Los Angeles County.
Executive Director Bussey said that the City would be represented by the RDA Board
but he did not know exactly who would represent the County.
Chris Haber, 11 Plumtree, thanked the Board and past Boards for progress made over
the years on the landslide, urging that the money set aside be used for more
improvements as intended.
Lois Larue,, 3136 Barkentine Road, congratulated the RDA Board for organizing today's
workshop but expressed displeasure that the meeting was not adequately noticed or
televised and disputed some of the details of the reports given by City officials.
Chair Lyon indicated that there had been 300 notices provided to the public, and that
the workshop had been announced at the last City Council Meeting.
Bill Griffin, 5 Ginger Root Lane, felt that today's meeting had been the best RDA
meeting to date and that it had provided an excellent beginning for communication. He
asked about a letter he had sent to the City in July 1995 regarding RDA funds collected
at Portuguese Bend and applied at Abalone Cove and expressed frustration that there
had been good intentions in the past to improve communication between the property
owners and the RDA and then the plans dissipated. He hoped this would not happen
again.
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PAGE 8
Chair Lyon thanked everyone for attending, indicated that further discussion of the
remainder of the agenda would be accomplished at a future RDA meeting, when more
details of the financial history of the RDA might be provided, and declared the meeting
adjourned at 1:04 P.M.
C HAI
ATTEST:
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• CLERK
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